2013 Federated Auto Parts 400 - Sprint Cup Series

If anyone's conspiring over that Clint Bowyer wreck still, I've been looking at it, and I do think that spin looked pretty legit. And if science has anything to say about how you can tell if a person is lying or not, I don't think he is.

Either he's a VEEEEERY good liar and the conspiracists are right, or he's telling the truth. If NASCAR is investigating that spin, and sources say that Clint Bowyer could get punted out of the Chase, that would be some luck for Jeff Gordon. And if that should happen, even if it's very unlikely, he could ride that stream of luck all the way to a good points finish. If only though...

kensethfan wrote:If anyone's conspiring over that Clint Bowyer wreck still, I've been looking at it, and I do think that spin looked pretty legit. And if science has anything to say about how you can tell if a person is lying or not, I don't think he is.

Either he's a VEEEEERY good liar, or the conspiracists are right. If NASCAR is investigating that spin, and sources say that Clint Bowyer could get punted out of the Chase, that would be some luck for Jeff Gordon. And if that should happen, even if it's very unlikely, he could ride that stream of luck all the way to a good points finish. If only though...

If he gets penalised.... Well it's NASCAR, so....

Menard does the same thing 2 years ago to give Harvick the win + bonus points...
If Bowyer gets booted, that Phoenix penalty for Jeff will be more BS! Because he ruined someone's shot at a title like yesterday

*My Opinion*

Wasn't the Harvick/Menard thing in the Spring though?

Mother of Invention wrote:Wasn't the Harvick/Menard thing in the Spring though?

Fall 2011

kensethfan wrote:If anyone's conspiring over that Clint Bowyer wreck still, I've been looking at it, and I do think that spin looked pretty legit. And if science has anything to say about how you can tell if a person is lying or not, I don't think he is.

Either he's a VEEEEERY good liar and the conspiracists are right, or he's telling the truth. If NASCAR is investigating that spin, and sources say that Clint Bowyer could get punted out of the Chase, that would be some luck for Jeff Gordon. And if that should happen, even if it's very unlikely, he could ride that stream of luck all the way to a good points finish. If only though...

Really? His interview was what sealed it for me.

He went from "the car was handling bad" to "we had a flat tire" to "Junior spun me out" in the span of seconds.

Not to mention his (and Vickers') radio transmissions are fishy as hell. And Michael Waltrip was overheard telling Truex "you've got the best teammates".

From my point of view, everything was deliberate. As was Vicker's 33-second lap at the end, as was Clint losing two laps on pit road despite not repairing any damage.

Lucstar88 wrote:

kensethfan wrote:If anyone's conspiring over that Clint Bowyer wreck still, I've been looking at it, and I do think that spin looked pretty legit. And if science has anything to say about how you can tell if a person is lying or not, I don't think he is.

Either he's a VEEEEERY good liar, or the conspiracists are right. If NASCAR is investigating that spin, and sources say that Clint Bowyer could get punted out of the Chase, that would be some luck for Jeff Gordon. And if that should happen, even if it's very unlikely, he could ride that stream of luck all the way to a good points finish. If only though...

If he gets penalised.... Well it's NASCAR, so....

Menard does the same thing 2 years ago to give Harvick the win + bonus points...
If Bowyer gets booted, that Phoenix penalty for Jeff will be more BS! Because he ruined someone's shot at a title like yesterday

*My Opinion*

Agreed. 2 years ago, that was just as fishy. But I wouldn't use that as the reason NASCAR shouldn't penalize Bowyer and/or Truex. One should learn from their mistakes

The Chase is not needed.
That's about all I have to say here.

Metro 6r4 wrote:The Chase is not needed.
That's about all I have to say here.

Thing is, these types of shenanigans have happened before the chase, but usually a team putting in a start and park car to ensure their champion to be doesn't finish in that spot. And at least that isn't near as egregious, as at least you are not having a guy spin out, and potentially have a car hit the guy and ruin their day.

I honestly think NASCAR should fine MWR, but also put Gordon/Newman in the chase. (Because they kinda got screwed) and have 14 cars making thr chase

That's what I personally would do

crl wrote:

kensethfan wrote:I'm not going to go out and make up conspiracy theories for tonight, I just want to say:

Clint Bowyer for buzzkill of the weekend.

I do feel bad for Newman and Gordon though. At least we get free Bloomin' Onions tomorrow.

>Outback Steakhouse. Amirite Nelson?

Wha?

If NASCAR were to give a Chase spot to anyone it would be Newman. So Gordon fans can qq more. But Chase is set, so deal with it.

GO HARV

Just read on another forum that if Bowyer and Truex Jr. were to get kicked out of the Chase, it should be Ken Schrader telling him the news.

I did some reasearch & i found that Denny Hamlin, had sort of the same incident in 2008. He led 381 laps, got a flat tire & stopped on track, thus bringing out the caution, and sorta helping his teamate Busch regain on the leader, Dale Junior, and the rest is history...

The point is that bringing a caution intentionally is a 2 lap penalty, nothing more.

NASCAR will probably fine MWR, but won't boot any cars, because that will be *Bad for Buisness*

Lucstar88 wrote:

NASCAR will probably fine MWR, but won't boot any cars, because that will be *Bad for Buisness*

That would be worse then any shenanigans MWR pulled if Nascar does that. Taking away someone's chase spot is way to far over team orders silliness.

Dan Mackay wrote:

And it will be a matter of time until someone spins again, and it turns into a wreck... then whoever is in charge of ordering that will become like this man

OH MY GOD!

https://twitter.com/JennaFryer/status/377215209108025344

You have got to be kidding me. WTF???!!  

Feel bad for Truex. He was racing his ass off trying to hold off Gordon for any slim chance he had left and probably had no idea what was going down. Wrong MWR car out of the chase IMO, but even then I'm sure they threatened Bowyer with something and put him in a box. Lose-lose-lose situation for everyone except Newman.

Well, I guess NASCAR doesn't take team orders too kindly... Good penalty IMO.

Menard = Nothing
Gordon(screwing some one's title shot) = slap on the hand
Hamlin = 2 laps
You've got to be kidding....
MWR will likely appeal

f1fan12 wrote:Well, I guess NASCAR doesn't take team orders too kindly... Good penalty IMO.

Exactly, I did post somewhere they needed to do something like this to show they don't take too kindly to this BS

crl wrote:OH MY GOD!

https://twitter.com/JennaFryer/status/377215209108025344

Despite the circumstances, I really wasn't expecting NASCAR to actually do anything like this! It's still inconsistent, but I'm glad they did it!

Truex had 50 points taken from his total, and after said deduction, Truex's total was lower than Newman's, so Newman got the second WC.

The only reason Truex was booted out was that the 50 point deduction had happened before the reseeding, therefore giving Newman a spot in the chase.

PYLrulz wrote:

Dan Mackay wrote:

And it will be a matter of time until someone spins again, and it turns into a wreck... then whoever is in charge of ordering that will become like this man

And it just happened.

It's half of what should be done. Now Bowyer needs kicked out too

I think they made the right call with this one. Now, at least I will have another person to cheer for in the chase who deserves to be there.

>yfw Newman finishes last & Bowyer wins the title...
I would die of laughter

Lucstar88 wrote:>yfw Newman finishes last & Bowyer wins the title...
I would die of laughter

I actually want Bowyer to win the title, 1. to piss off people, and 2. win the championships with no wins.

I'm impressed NASCAR decided to do anything. That's absolutely amazing.

The only thing I woulda done extra was sit Vickers out a race or two.....

Mother of Invention wrote:The only thing I woulda done extra was sit Vickers out a race or two.....

Thing is, Vickers is a part time driver, so what extra good would it do?!?

Well, the conspiracists got their way, you may all sit down now. But if you're still going to bitch about how it should've been Jeff Gordon who made the Chase, remain standing and duct tape will be applied to your mouth.

Why did they even bother penalizing Bowyer at all? -50 points...before the Chase. So, effectively, nil. That's a penalty that makes exactly zero impact.

I'm happy NASCAR did something for once, but it feels slightly hollow, knowing that Bowyer basically has a clean slate (points-wise, anyway. No doubt several drivers aren't very happy with him, starting with Jeff Gordon).

LGTSS:
>mwr

The way people have been reacting...good god! I'm a Gordon fan myself and I don't even care that he's not in the Chase. I'm just glad that NASCAR at least did something about it. Of course it's not going to completely satisfy everyone, but they need to realize that NASCAR is trying to do something right for a change!

PYLrulz wrote:

Mother of Invention wrote:The only thing I woulda done extra was sit Vickers out a race or two.....

Thing is, Vickers is a part time driver, so what extra good would it do?!?

well with Mark in the #14, isn't he running all the races left sans Dega?

Mother of Invention wrote:

PYLrulz wrote:

Mother of Invention wrote:The only thing I woulda done extra was sit Vickers out a race or two.....

Thing is, Vickers is a part time driver, so what extra good would it do?!?

well with Mark in the #14, isn't he running all the races left sans Dega?

Yes, Mark was released from his MWR commitments, and Vickers is running the 55 in every race except Talladega, which Michael Waltrip will run

Mother of Invention wrote:

PYLrulz wrote:

Mother of Invention wrote:The only thing I woulda done extra was sit Vickers out a race or two.....

Thing is, Vickers is a part time driver, so what extra good would it do?!?

well with Mark in the #14, isn't he running all the races left sans Dega?

Right, I forgot about that.

But even then, Vickers isn't running for points in Cup, not unless you suggesting that would mean Vickers sits out of Nationwide races too

Admittedly I'm pretty biased as a Ryan Newman fan, but I'm happy NASCAR did something about this whole thing. Color me surprised though because I didn't see anything like this coming.

Seems that the circumstances surrounding Vickers kicked this whole thing into gear:

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/09/helton-evidence-to-punish-waltrip-team-came-from-vickers-not-bowyer/

Yeah, I am not surprised.

The only problem that I have with this is the fact that Jeff Gordon raced his ass off, but still lost two spots in the points. Two spots, I may add, that he cannot get back no matter what happens. He could win all ten races, lead every lap, but it wouldn't matter, just because one team needed an extra car in the Chase so bad that they made a decision to spin and pit their cars.

Here is the infamous Vickers radio audio. We've all seen it transcribed; now, we can hear it, too:

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/hear-the-in-car-audio-that?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook

Right Penalty. You penalize the offenders but at the same time and minimize damaging the integrity of the chase. (Well what little it has left)

I will honestly will die laughing if Newman pulls the best 10 races of his career and wins the title.

Alta wrote:Right Penalty. You penalize the offenders but at the same time and minimize damaging the integrity of the chase. (Well what little it has left)

I will honestly will die laughing if Newman pulls the best 10 races of his career and wins the title.

Still think it's not enough of a penalty for Bowyer though. I find it just as similar as when Piquet wrecked his car in Singapore a few years back

PYLrulz wrote:

Alta wrote:Right Penalty. You penalize the offenders but at the same time and minimize damaging the integrity of the chase. (Well what little it has left)

I will honestly will die laughing if Newman pulls the best 10 races of his career and wins the title.

Still think it's not enough of a penalty for Bowyer though.  I find it just as similar as when Piquet wrecked his car in Singapore a few years back

Nascar did not factor the spin at into it. Was the the pit road shenanigans.

So wait a second, NASCAR punishes MWR based off of what they got from Vickers (who did not spin), not from what they got from Bowyer (who did affect the finish more than Vickers)?

I listened to Vickers' in-car audio, and it was no different than Bowyer's... if NASCAR couldn't interpret Bowyer's spin and radio chatter as enough evidence, then that's not a good sign. Granted, NASCAR did let Menard and Gordon get away with their respective championship-affecting antics, yet Toyota driver Kyle Busch got hammered for doing the same thing Jeff Gordon did in Trucks.

It's the right call to make, but based off the wrong evidence.

By the tone in Vickers voice I don't think this was planned out. The Bowyer spin is debatable but the penalty is understandable.