Re: NASCAR at Talladega

by PackerMan71 Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:20 pm

kensethfan wrote:
Pyrozooka0 wrote:
flyingturns89 wrote:
Pyrozooka0 wrote:We should start a GoFundMe to put a bounty on Harvick for the Martinsville race. Even if no one takes action on it during the race, the point is still made.

Regardless of whether or not he did wreck Bayne intentionally, or whether or not there is a penalty, this is no way to respond.

It was intended as more of a symbolic threat than anything. I don't want anyone to get hurt, I just want anyone but him to win the title.

Please get over yourself. <3

I actually agree with Pyro on the basis that I don't ever want to see Harvick win anything again. Period.

I never thought I'd hate anyone more than Jimmie Johnson, but Kevin Harvick changed that today. I will NEVER root for Harvick ever again.

Also...

http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2015/10/25/nascars-mike-helton-no-evidence-of-kevin-harvick-wrongdoing-yet/

(sigh)

You know, the evidence you're looking for is as simple as looking at Harvick's on-board camera. It's pretty clear he did that shit intentionally just to save championship hopes that were going out the window for sure. And this is NASCAR's defending champion doing this, for f**k's sake. How do you think that's gonna make the sport look?

As for a review, I saw the finish, but I haven't watched the whole race, so I'll wait until the full race is posted to give an honest assessment of the whole race.

by Lucstar88 Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:48 pm

Logano has to be the favorite now.

6 Wins, 20 Top 5's and 26 top 10's

4 off the Gordon mark. 30

That's the driver the beat.

by BooyakaDragon Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:37 pm

To be fair to NASCAR, they can't just give an immediate verdict in this kind of situation like ya'll are with Harvick lol. Give it time, see how things boil down over the week and we'll see what happens.

by gone-sovereign Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:55 pm

PackerMan71 wrote:
kensethfan wrote:
Pyrozooka0 wrote:
flyingturns89 wrote:
Pyrozooka0 wrote:We should start a GoFundMe to put a bounty on Harvick for the Martinsville race. Even if no one takes action on it during the race, the point is still made.

Regardless of whether or not he did wreck Bayne intentionally, or whether or not there is a penalty, this is no way to respond.

It was intended as more of a symbolic threat than anything. I don't want anyone to get hurt, I just want anyone but him to win the title.

Please get over yourself. <3

I actually agree with Pyro on the basis that I don't ever want to see Harvick win anything again. Period.

I never thought I'd hate anyone more than Jimmie Johnson, but Kevin Harvick changed that today. I will NEVER root for Harvick ever again.

Also...

http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2015/10/25/nascars-mike-helton-no-evidence-of-kevin-harvick-wrongdoing-yet/

(sigh)

You know, the evidence you're looking for is as simple as looking at Harvick's on-board camera. It's pretty clear he did that shit intentionally just to save championship hopes that were going out the window for sure. And this is NASCAR's defending champion doing this, for f**k's sake. How do you think that's gonna make the sport look?

As for a review, I saw the finish, but I haven't watched the whole race, so I'll wait until the full race is posted to give an honest assessment of the whole race.

There were rumors of Ryan Newman's crew chief going to the NASCAR hauler after the race. Bear in mind that if Harvick were to be taken out, the #31 team would most likely be the beneficiary.

And I agree with the evidence from Harvick's onboard. Watch the .gif Luc posted earlier in this thread and tell me you don't see Harvick bank right when the green flag drops. He had to have known Bayne was going to try and pass him up high, and of course he knew the next caution would decide the race. Furthermore, if Harvick knew under caution that his car was going as fast as it was probably going to ever again after the restart, why was he still on track?

I'm not mad, I'm just more disappointed in NASCAR for this whole debacle. I try not to get too frustrated over motorsports, because to me, getting yourself angry over any kind of sport seems petulant, no matter how passionate you are. Generally speaking, if you're getting bent out of shape for something like this, a situation that NASCAR has dealt with before, you might want to consider taking up a hobby that's more gratifying. That said, insinuating that there should be a bounty placed on Harvick at Martinsville is not only silly, but it won't do jack squat either.

by PYLrulz Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:06 pm

Got to see some clips

At some point, something has to happen to or with NASCAR in which Brian France has no more power. It's sad a breakaway series cannot be formed since most of the well built ovals are either owned by SMI or ISC. I honestly think that, if a breakaway series were to ever somehow form, unlike CART which died a long painful death, NASCAR would be quick, as long as some names got to it.

But things being as they are, I have a feeling Stock Car racing will eventually be in a bigger quagmire than open wheel is in right now.

by PackerMan71 Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:14 pm

PYLrulz wrote:Got to see some clips

At some point, something has to happen to or with NASCAR in which Brian France has no more power. It's sad a breakaway series cannot be formed since most of the well built ovals are either owned by SMI or ISC. I honestly think that, if a breakaway series were to ever somehow form, unlike CART which died a long painful death, NASCAR would be quick, as long as some names got to it.

But things being as they are, I have a feeling Stock Car racing will eventually be in a bigger quagmire than open wheel is in right now.

Implying that it doesn't have two feet in the grave already, based on how many people are turning away from it.

by PYLrulz Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:22 pm

PackerMan71 wrote:
PYLrulz wrote:Got to see some clips

At some point, something has to happen to or with NASCAR in which Brian France has no more power. It's sad a breakaway series cannot be formed since most of the well built ovals are either owned by SMI or ISC. I honestly think that, if a breakaway series were to ever somehow form, unlike CART which died a long painful death, NASCAR would be quick, as long as some names got to it.

But things being as they are, I have a feeling Stock Car racing will eventually be in a bigger quagmire than open wheel is in right now.

Implying that it doesn't have two feet in the grave already, based on how many people are turning away from it.

Only thing propping it up right now is the deals they have. At the rate they are going, when it comes time to re-up, sponsors will LAUGH in their face.

by f1fan12 Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:58 pm

Theme song to the finish

by Pyrozooka0 Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:23 pm

This was said on Harvick's radio before the incident. "Hopefully they'll wreck after they cross the start and finish line." Sounds like evidence to me.

Unrelated: If open wheel racing died, then does that make Indycar a zombie? Granted, it's nowhere near as big as it was, but still.

by PYLrulz Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:58 pm

Pyrozooka0 wrote:This was said on Harvick's radio before the incident. "Hopefully they'll wreck after they cross the start and finish line." Sounds like evidence to me.

Unrelated: If open wheel racing died, then does that make Indycar a zombie? Granted, it's nowhere near as big as it was, but still.

And maybe that's what gets him. He was in a position where he badly needed a caution, so I'm sure he can say "Hey, that was said because in the predicament we were in, I needed a caution. Not saying I did it, it was just what was needed to have luck go my way."

by SpeedDemon37 Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:44 pm

kensethfan wrote:I'm not mad, I'm just more disappointed in NASCAR for this whole debacle. I try not to get too frustrated over motorsports, because to me, getting yourself angry over any kind of sport seems petulant, no matter how passionate you are. Generally speaking, if you're getting bent out of shape for something like this, a situation that NASCAR has dealt with before, you might want to consider taking up a hobby that's more gratifying. That said, insinuating that there should be a bounty placed on Harvick at Martinsville is not only silly, but it won't do jack squat either.

Very well-said. I've been guilty of this before, but I've been trying to keep that general idea in mind; it's not worth getting very upset.

This was the second Cup race that I watched through its entirety this year (the other being Darlington). I don't at all enjoy the Chase and wasn't planning to watch any of its races, but after watching the Trucks I wanted to see some more Talladega racing. I enjoyed it, and got really excited near the end when I noticed that Biffle was trying to avoid pitting.

Unfortunately McMurray's engine foiled Biffle's strategy, and the finish was very upsetting. Not because the race ended under caution or that Logano won (neither of which I was hoping for), but because of what Harvick did. That wreck appeared to be intentional, and while I may not be someone who's ever raced a car or been in his position, I would consider that to be very dishonorable. I was very surprised that NASCAR let him take the restart with a faltering car to begin with, and even more so when they let him do it twice.

Making Harvick's actions (if they were intentional) even worse is the fact that the driver who he wrecked in front of the whole field to his benefit was Trevor Bayne, who is one of the most respectable drivers in the garage and was having one of the better races of his season. Bayne and Earnhardt, Jr. showed a lot of professionalism by not attacking Harvick for his actions in their post-race interviews considering how greatly that they were both affected by them (Bayne was upset, but rightfully so, and I would not at all consider his words to be attacking).

by BooyakaDragon Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:54 am

BooyakaDragon wrote:To be fair to NASCAR, they can't just give an immediate verdict in this kind of situation like ya'll are with Harvick lol. Give it time, see how things boil down over the week and we'll see what happens.

Nevermind.

NASCAR at Talladega - Page 2 Kk1jn3m

by **Ben Atkins** Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:47 pm

BooyakaDragon wrote:
BooyakaDragon wrote:To be fair to NASCAR, they can't just give an immediate verdict in this kind of situation like ya'll are with Harvick lol. Give it time, see how things boil down over the week and we'll see what happens.

Nevermind.

Welp.

Here's to hoping someone takes Harvick's ass out the next three races.

by gone-sovereign Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:56 pm

BooyakaDragon wrote:
BooyakaDragon wrote:To be fair to NASCAR, they can't just give an immediate verdict in this kind of situation like ya'll are with Harvick lol. Give it time, see how things boil down over the week and we'll see what happens.

Nevermind.

To reiterate my previously established point...

kensethfan wrote:If Harvick knew under caution that his car was going as fast as it was probably going to ever again after the restart, why was he still on track?

by Alta Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:16 pm

Brainless call, basically tells drivers "be stupid".

by bsoyuz Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:32 pm

Well, next week is Martinsville, we can see both a tame race or someone will go after Harvick's ass. Anyway, you all have to check next week.

by PackerMan71 Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:22 pm

(sigh)

I feel one of my patented rants coming on right now. Here we go. Rant mode engaged.

Well, this was the straw that has officially broken the camel's back.

I'm not gonna bother watching the race to do this review, because it doesn't matter how good the racing was. The finish completely ruins the race regardless, and after what Kevin Harvick did, and based on the fact that NASCAR is the most incompetent bunch of jackasses walking the face of the earth that don't even follow the rules that it makes, this race gets an automatic 0/10.

But wait, there's more, and some of you might scoff at this, but whatever.

I'm done with NASCAR. I'm done covering their races, I'm done watching full races, and I'm done with dealing with the controversy, the piss poor racing, this Godforsaken Chase format, and all the other bullshit that has turned this organization into the biggest running joke in the history of motorsports. I honestly cannot believe how bad it's become. I knew that this Chase format would turn into a clusterf**k, but for it to turn into THIS?! I can't even comprehend how NASCAR could basically let Kevin Harvick get away with murder, when there's plenty of evidence to suggest that he started that wreck intentionally. The on-board camera alone is proof enough, but how about throwing in the radio chatter along with it, with what Rodney Childress said right before that debacle happened? Is NASCAR that f**king blind, or are they that biased toward Kevin Harvick? Based on what I've seen, it's a combination of both, and it makes me sick.

Oh, and here's what that f**ktard Harvick had to say afterwards...

"I don't need to defend myself."

Here's the crazy thing about what Harvick did. Everyone knows that I'm not a fan of Jimmie Johnson at all, but after this debacle, I honestly don't feel the same hatred for the guy like I used to. I think part of the reason is because while I didn't want to see him win those six championships, I'll will give him credit where credit is due on this: To my knowledge, he never had to resort to moves like Harvick did just to save MAH CHAMPONSHP! When he was trailing in the 2010 championship to Denny Hamlinm he didn't have to wreck Denny to win the title. He straight up beat him for it on the track, and he never once had to resort to underhanded tactics.

But in my opinion, what Kevin Harvick did at Talladega was borderline cardinal sin territory, and the fact that NASCAR is letting him get away with it has really made me question my loyalty to this company. I've watched NASCAR for over 20 years, all the way back to when I was a little guy, and Davey Allison was my guy. He was my first hero as a kid, and I vividly remember watching the race we now know as One Hot Night, the first ever All-Star night race, and I remember how excited I was when he won that race, and the concern I had when he was injured.

But now, 20 years later, this sport is just a shell of its former glory. And I knew when this format was announced before the 2014 season that it was gonna create an edsel, a lemon, a disaster waiting to happen, because this format causes drivers to perform questionable moves that they normally wouldn't think to do. I guess this is what winning a championship is all about now, huh?

I just don't have the energy to watch this crap anymore, and it's not just stemming from this incident. The racing this year has been absolute garbage, and it's made me question myself as to why I continue to waste my precious time watching a product that is not good right now, and yes, they will be going to the low downforce package next year, but that's still no guarantee that the racing will get better, and even if it does, the biggest hindrance to this sport right now is the Godforsaken Chase format that none of us wanted, and until they decided to finally axe the damn thing, if they ever, then this sport will never return to what it once was.

I know some people will be skeptical about this statement, and that's fine, but until they get their shit straightened out, I'm officially done watching NASCAR. I'll catch highlights and maybe the end of a race if it interests me, but as far as investing 4 hours of my time every week to watch this product, I'm done. I refuse to support an organization that's as incompetent as NASCAR is and makes me feel like my intelligence is being insulted. I mean, how can you watch the footage of the accident, the on-board camera and listen to the radio chatter and honestly think 'Nope, everything's good'? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Of course, this also means that I will not be reviewing NASCAR races anymore, so I will be focusing my attention exclusively on IndyCar, because while some of the higher-ups there aren't exactly the brightest either, at the very least, the on-track product more than makes up for it.

(sigh)

I tried to find hope that this sport would get better, and we've slogged through some extremely crappy races this year just to keep that faith, but there comes a time where there's only so much bullshit you can take before you finally say 'enough's enough'. I held out as long as I could, but I've reached my breaking point, and I can't take watching this product any longer.

I'll only start watching on a regular basis again if... and that's a big IF, they ever axe the Chase completely, because what NASCAR doesn't realize is that it's the Chase that's really holding it back.

Rant mode disengaged.

by Michael29Shell Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:17 pm

PYLrulz wrote:God lord, NASCAR goes through with this, and they WILL regret it. Fans turning off, and someone doing something absolutely stupid at Dega.

Called it...

by day500champ1 Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:24 pm

You know what's funny? Despite everything that's happened in the last 2 weeks, this is the most of heard anyone (including those on hear) talk about NASCAR (criticism obviously counts, hey you're talking about it) I've heard all year.

Am I wrong?

by Spannerhead29 (Nelson) Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:53 am

day500champ1 wrote:You know what's funny? Despite everything that's happened in the last 2 weeks, this is the most of heard anyone (including those on hear) talk about NASCAR (criticism obviously counts, hey you're talking about it) I've heard all year.

Am I wrong?

by PYLrulz Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:42 pm

Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:
day500champ1 wrote:You know what's funny? Despite everything that's happened in the last 2 weeks, this is the most of heard anyone (including those on hear) talk about NASCAR (criticism obviously counts, hey you're talking about it) I've heard all year.

Am I wrong?

The problem is, while controversy does create cash, you create the wrong kind of controversy, it WILL turn off people eventually. Oh I'm sure people will tune in to see if Harvick gets his just desserts at Martinsville, but after that?!?

And good lord 29Shell, where the hell did you find that Laughing

. I did call it, didn't I?!? Pacman

by gone-sovereign Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:12 pm

In response to Packer's rant...

kensethfan wrote:Generally speaking, if you're getting bent out of shape for something like this, a situation that NASCAR has dealt with before, you might want to consider taking up a hobby that's more gratifying.

This Chase format is broken, that much we can all agree on. That's precisely why I stopped giving a shit about the championship. I just like to watch the races I think will be entertaining, because if nothing else, it's the spectacle I enjoy the most. And while this season has been downright abysmal, I have my hopes up for next season to bring a better racing product to the table. I don't expect everyone to feel the same way, but what I'm trying to say is you don't have to act like it's a chore to watch these races. Either watch or don't. It's up to you.

NASCAR always has the fans that will say, "I'm DONE with NASCAR!" after they see something they don't like from the sport, and yet they always come back. So with all due respect, even if just for one of the bigger events, I trust that you'll come back too, Packer. <3

by Michael29Shell Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:19 pm

PYLrulz wrote:
Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:
day500champ1 wrote:You know what's funny? Despite everything that's happened in the last 2 weeks, this is the most of heard anyone (including those on hear) talk about NASCAR (criticism obviously counts, hey you're talking about it) I've heard all year.

Am I wrong?

The problem is, while controversy does create cash, you create the wrong kind of controversy, it WILL turn off people eventually. Oh I'm sure people will tune in to see if Harvick gets his just desserts at Martinsville, but after that?!?

And good lord 29Shell, where the hell did you find that . I did call it, didn't I?!?

Yes you did: https://efr1.forumotion.com/t4076-nascar-looking-to-overhaul-points-chase#85557

by Alta Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:47 pm

I've been paying attention with how pundits and people inside the sport are responding to this issue and it really sounds like people are passing it off as "Oh you're upset over controversial finish? Must be a whiny Junior fan." which is a very crappy way to respond to fans of your product.

by PackerMan71 Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:46 pm

kensethfan wrote:In response to Packer's rant...

kensethfan wrote:Generally speaking, if you're getting bent out of shape for something like this, a situation that NASCAR has dealt with before, you might want to consider taking up a hobby that's more gratifying.

This Chase format is broken, that much we can all agree on. That's precisely why I stopped giving a shit about the championship. I just like to watch the races I think will be entertaining, because if nothing else, it's the spectacle I enjoy the most. And while this season has been downright abysmal, I have my hopes up for next season to bring a better racing product to the table. I don't expect everyone to feel the same way, but what I'm trying to say is you don't have to act like it's a chore to watch these races. Either watch or don't. It's up to you.

NASCAR always has the fans that will say, "I'm DONE with NASCAR!" after they see something they don't like from the sport, and yet they always come back. So with all due respect, even if just for one of the bigger events, I trust that you'll come back too, Packer. <3

And I will...

...AFTER they get rid of the Chase and improve this Godforsaken product.

I'll watch highlights and maybe the end of the race every now and then, but I'm done investing fours hours of my time into this crap every week when there has hardly been any payoff. I just don't have the energy or the interest anymore, and in my case, if I lose interest in something, I move on to other things.

And here's the thing: I thought the same thing about the WWE. I used to watch Monday Night RAW religiously for 15 years, ever since the Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars. Then, it recent years, it became more and more boring to watch. Eventually, it became static in the background, and then I stopped watching it altogether. I haven't watched an episode of RAW in four years, and I don't plan on doing so ever again.

If NASCAR wants my loyalty and trust back, then they need to improve the on-track product and get rid of the Chase completely, because like I said before, there's only so much bullshit a man can take before you finally say enough's enough, and every man has his breaking point, and this race broke mine.

Mark my words. From this point forward, IndyCar is where I'll get my racing fix.

Alta wrote:I've been paying attention with how pundits and people inside the sport are responding to this issue and it really sounds like people are passing it off as "Oh you're upset over controversial finish? Must be a whiny Junior fan." which is a very crappy way to respond to fans of your product.

Sounds a lot like what people inside the WWE do to their fans on a regular basis. "You don't like our product, you must be an internet wrestling fan." I swear, the similarities between the WWE and NASCAR grow more frightening every single day.

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