What needs to be done to improve NASCAR's quality of racing?

Just as the title asks, what do you feel NASCAR needs to do to improve it's racing?

* More road courses
* different aero options. So a team could have greater freedom between a low downforce setup (fast on straights, slow in corners) or a high downforce setup (slow on straights, fast in corners)

Change the television package plain in simple, in fact, this could go with any motorsport. What one sees at the racetrack is completely different from what one sees on TV.

If you have a competent broadcast crew, directors, and camera crew, any race can be interesting. It's all POV.

Hell look at earlier FOX and ESPN broadcast of the races and tell me those races weren't exciting.

I don't think I would start making major changes until I try changing the perception.

Needs more road course - One to balance out the schedule, Nascar put on a hell of a show everytime

Less cookie-cutters - Same damn track. Same damn racing. Borefest. Need less of them.

Less focus on the personalities and more focus on the racing - I'll play devil's advocate here what if the mid-field stuff in Nascar has been pretty fun but we've never got to see it. They need to focus more on the actual racing itself and less on the drivers they want to put over (Danica, Kyle Busch, Jimmie Johnson, Travis Pastrana) this isn't wrestling Nascar. Stop making it look like it is.
Change up the broadcast team - When you look at Ryan's post above, one of issues that gets the most complaints is the broadcast team. Fox i feel is too goofy with their commentators (DW, Mikey), TNT is okay for the most part. but Adam Alexander is iffy...really can't decide if he's good or bad. ESPN lacks the emotion of other two broadcasting groups with the exception being Allen Bestwick. (He called the Nationwide Daytona race from turn 3 to the checkereds by himself, That tells you how bad Petree and Jarret are)

Cut the chase - One driver figured out how to win it for five years straight and it took an absolute collapse that led into the chase to stop him from winning it again. Now tell me how that's exciting? Go back to the good fashioned the guy with most points at the end of it wins it all.


All i have in mind at the moment. Might add more later.

Stop being over-protective at the expense of the racing. I know I may sound terrible by saying this, but although the improvements have increased driver safety, much of it has resulted in NASCAR being far too scared to try anything new or do anything outside the box. Between the restrictions of the car of tomorrow and the officials' absolute phobia of having cars going anywhere over their preferred speed limit of 202-4 mph, the racing has decreased dramatically in quality. I know the drivers have to be safe, but with the SAFER barriers, the improved restraints, and the great safety crews, I think it's time to give more freedom to the teams in regard to top speed and performance, and stop slowing them down the second they get out of your comfort zone. These drivers are professionals; stop treating them like little kids on tricycles and stop trying to control every little thing on track.

More road courses.

Softer tires. Even Fontana can give good racing as long as the tires can wear out.

Larger fuel cells. When a tank only lasts 70 miles, you're not going to see very many "comers and goers" at the end of a run. By stretching a run out longer, you get far more disparity among those who ran too hard too early, and those who saved their stuff for later.

Change the point system. Passing someone for 2nd gives you as much of a gain as passing someone for 42nd. One point just isn't worth the effort, leading to a system that rewards extreme point racing.

Ditch the chase. A close points race at the end is not worth the trade-off of making 26 races practically meaningless. I'll take a year like 2001, where there were plenty of fun races, despite Gordon running away with the title over a year like 2011.

More track variety. Fewer cookie-cutters, more short tracks and road courses.

Eliminate the 'lucky dog' and wave around rules. This is not a welfare state, we don't just handout free laps to slower cars.

The race has a scheduled distance. We will not go over that limit. Okay, we might have an occasional race end under caution, but them's the breaks.

Try putting the 2001 wicker on the cars at non-plate tracks like Michigan, Fontana, Pocono and Indy. That should disrupt air flow enough to make drafting a factor at these tracks, thereby bringing back the sort of racing we had in the '70's.

And the number one most important thing: Realize that you will never please everybody. No matter what you do, someone will be ticked. Rather than bend over backwards to try to please these 'fans', just stick to what's worked in the past, and don't worry about getting negetive press. That's how grandpa Bill ran things, and if he actually had a pair, that's how Brian should run things.

Race in the rain - It will make the racing extremely unpredictable
Road Course's - A lot of the world's most popular series race on only road courses

Nascar9fan wrote:Road Course's - A lot of the world's most popular series race on only road courses

I could see adding a few road courses. But not making it half the schedule. We do need less cookie cutters. Tracks like Michigan, ACSoSC, Chicagoland and Kansas should never be built. Frankly all the tracks currently on the schedule that are on the West coast are just boring IMO. I would also like to see more banked short tracks added.

I truly believe that switching to the COT was the downfall of good racing. The only benefit from that car was the safety package.

What they need to do overall is stop valuing showmanship over integrity.

But if we are to get specific...

- No more stupid debris cautions.
- Go-or-go-homers qualify first. If a rainout happens halfway through or something, the fastest ones get in.
- Encourage more American manufacturers to get involved. Brand identity is going to soar through the roof in 2013 anyway.
- Revise the GWC rule to be 2 attempts at four laps as opposed to 3 attempts at 2 laps, which would hopefully make them a little more civil but still exciting.
- Less commercials. [/lolobviousone]
- Revise the top-35 rule to be the top-25 rule. Qualifying will thus be less of a joke.
- Run a short qualifying race before time trials on 3-5 race weekends a year. The 18 transferring drivers would move on to actual qualifying. In turn, the past champ's provisional will be revised so that instead of the most recent past champ getting in, the one who finished highest in the heat race will. The qualifying races might also encourage the start-and-parkers to actually race on those weekends.
- Give an award for drivers/teams that run less than half of the schedule so as to give them more exposure. Best average finish wins.
- Make the spoilers adjustable again and allow the teams to shape them according to the street car's body.
- Bring the wicker back for plate tracks.

Other than the safety aspects...

Go back to what worked. AKA, go back to the cars of the early 00's

All of the other stuff then can be worked on from there.

New Qualifying procedure: 1 hour, all cars can go on track, no one is locked in.

f1fan12 wrote:New Qualifying procedure: 1 hour, all cars can go on track, no one is locked in.

Interesting, but how are you going to keep it fair at plate tracks?

Spen wrote:Eliminate the 'lucky dog' and wave around rules. This is not a welfare state, we don't just handout free laps to slower cars.

That rule isn't there for nothing. Remember back in the days where drivers could race back to the caution and the leader would usually let the lapped cars pass by to get back on the lead lap until NASCAR decided to freeze the field the instant the caution comes out for safety reasons? Well, if NASCAR were to get rid of the "lucky dog" rule, any driver a lap down or more would never be able to get back a lap or back on the lead lap. A lot of drivers would be complaining. Also, prior to the double file restarts, the lapped cars would be able to restart on the inside of the lead lap cars just so it can give lapped cars an opportunity to remain in the hunt for a good finish. It's just one of those things where people don't really think about something that can actually be that big of a concern for drivers out there.

RealRacer4 wrote:

Spen wrote:Eliminate the 'lucky dog' and wave around rules. This is not a welfare state, we don't just handout free laps to slower cars.

That rule isn't there for nothing. Remember back in the days where drivers could race back to the caution and the leader would usually let the lapped cars pass by to get back on the lead lap until NASCAR decided to freeze the field the instant the caution comes out for safety reasons? Well, if NASCAR were to get rid of the "lucky dog" rule, any driver a lap down or more would never be able to get back a lap or back on the lead lap. A lot of drivers would be complaining. Also, prior to the double file restarts, the lapped cars would be able to restart on the inside of the lead lap cars just so it can give lapped cars an opportunity to remain in the hunt for a good finish. It's just one of those things where people don't really think about something that can actually be that big of a concern for drivers out there.

Ding Ding Ding!

Want to complain about the Lucky Dog? Then complain to past drivers that would allow lapped cars to get their laps back when a caution came out. If that wasn't ever practiced, I guarantee you the Lucky Dog would NEVER came to be.

In fact, if it was up to me, I would revise the Lucky Dog rule, have it so as many or few of the drivers that are between 1st and 2nd can get their laps back, at the leader's discretion. No lapped cars between 1st and 2nd? No Lucky Dog. 6 cars between 1st and 2nd? The leader can choose 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or all 6 to get their laps back.

Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

I would love it if NASCAR would shorten most of their race distances. Maybe split the race into a two-race weekend like in Australia?

No one locked in. No Champs provisional. Eliminate qualifying. Quickest lap in any given practice of the weekend sets your starting spot. The driver with the quickest practice lap is the pole sitter.

Rain races at any type of track. No crappy delays.

Larger variety of tracks, including smaller tracks that could hold double headers.

- hold qualifying races. It would only happen if the entry list's were bigger though.
- maybe hold 3 race events on one race day like the BTCC.
- put Road Courses like Montreal and Road America on the Sprint Cup Schedule.

Be non-biased toward Jr and others.

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Whats wrong with that?

f1fan12 wrote:

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Whats wrong with that?

NASCAR is not F1, just like Delgado is not CJ. Come on f1fan you should know the difference between A and B. Do I have to get the diagrams out again?

day500champ1 wrote:

f1fan12 wrote:

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Whats wrong with that?

NASCAR is not F1, just like Delgado is not CJ. Come on f1fan you should know the difference between A and B. Do I have to get the diagrams out again?

Indycar isn't NASCAR, but that is what they wanted it to be when it formed.

Ok, I have to respond to this since a couple of people mentioned it.

NASCAR could not hold an oval track race in the rain. The tire physical just simply would not allow it. You couldn't use tires with tread because it would rip them apart and you can't you slicks for obvious reasons. So, that wouldn't be possible unless extensive tire testing and development is done.

Road Courses. I don't have a problem with them, but they shouldn't make up a majority of the schedule. If you want to add track variety, I'd say go to a South Boston or add a dirt race like Stewart Prelude event to the schedule. Leave the road racing for the open wheel cars.

Certain motor sports were founded with certain tracks in mind. For F1, road course. For NASCAR, short tracks. Etc.

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Except F1 doesn't have timed races...

If F1 is having better races, than I say, make it like F1. But Nascar is too stubborn to do that.

day500champ1 wrote:Road Courses. I don't have a problem with them, but they shouldn't make up a majority of the schedule. If you want to add track variety, I'd say go to a South Boston or add a dirt race like Stewart Prelude event to the schedule. Leave the road racing for the open wheel cars.

This. One million times this.

f1fan12 wrote:If F1 is having better races, than I say, make it like F1. But Nascar is too stubborn to do that.

I'm not sure but didn't another certain series *cough Indycar cough* try to copy another series *cough NASCAR cough* because of their popularity? Tell me, how did that work out?

Sorry about that cough, I need to have that looked at.

day500champ1 wrote:

f1fan12 wrote:If F1 is having better races, than I say, make it like F1. But Nascar is too stubborn to do that.

I'm not sure but didn't another certain series *cough Indycar cough* try to copy another series *cough NASCAR cough* because of their popularity? Tell me, how did that work out?

Sorry about that cough, I need to have that looked at.

Yeah, what did they do? Morph into what they resented about the previous governing body.

Blake Camphausen wrote:

day500champ1 wrote:

f1fan12 wrote:If F1 is having better races, than I say, make it like F1. But Nascar is too stubborn to do that.

I'm not sure but didn't another certain series *cough Indycar cough* try to copy another series *cough NASCAR cough* because of their popularity? Tell me, how did that work out?

Sorry about that cough, I need to have that looked at.

Yeah, what did they do? Morph into what they resented about the previous governing body.

I have to agree with day500champ1 on this. Every series should have their own identity instead of racing series' trying to copy off each other. And if you're going to copy something, at least change it up a bit just to make it at least somewhat better. To keep it simple, it's a desparate way of trying to make themselves look better. That's how I look at it. At least Indy Car decided to get rid of the double file restarts on the ovals. Just seeing that stuff in the Indy 500, IMO, was really dumb.

RealRacer4 wrote:

Blake Camphausen wrote:

day500champ1 wrote:

f1fan12 wrote:If F1 is having better races, than I say, make it like F1. But Nascar is too stubborn to do that.

I'm not sure but didn't another certain series *cough Indycar cough* try to copy another series *cough NASCAR cough* because of their popularity? Tell me, how did that work out?

Sorry about that cough, I need to have that looked at.

Yeah, what did they do? Morph into what they resented about the previous governing body.

I have to agree with day500champ1 on this. Every series should have their own identity instead of racing series' trying to copy off each other. And if you're going to copy something, at least change it up a bit just to make it at least somewhat better. To keep it simple, it's a desparate way of trying to make themselves look better. That's how I look at it. At least Indy Car decided to get rid of the double file restarts on the ovals. Just seeing that stuff in the Indy 500, IMO, was really dumb.

Exactly. If every racing series in the world was exactly the same, that would be deathly boring. What makes each series unique is the difference between them. Cars, drivers, and tracks. That's not saying someone can't like more than one series. In fact, I think a driver's reputation is given more credit when they can try and succeed in more than one series. Just look at Mario. If you had similar series, there wouldn't be any challenge for those drivers who want to cross compete.

I still think NASCAR needs more road courses, 5 or 6 would be a realistic good number.

Im not saying copy every rule, but why is Formula 1 having better races this year, then take some of their idea's and modify them for Nascar. The Indycar/Nascar, situation was just a lack of common sense on Indycar's part.

In the final 10% of the percent of the race, tell all the driver that if they are not on the lead lap, they need to allow cars that are on the lead lap to pass them, unless they are fighting to stay on the lead lap. Procedures for this rule would go as follows: Race officials would report to the head official about a driver off the lead lap not allowing a driver on the lead lap to pass. Officials give the driver a blue and yellow flag. If they do not allow the lead lap driver to pass, they are black flagged and scoring for said driver halts until they pass through pit lane. However, if they do allow the lead lap driver to pass, no penalty will be assessed to them.

Rykia_RKXK wrote:No one locked in. No Champs provisional. Eliminate qualifying. Quickest lap in any given practice of the weekend sets your starting spot. The driver with the quickest practice lap is the pole sitter.

Rain races at any type of track. No crappy delays.

Larger variety of tracks, including smaller tracks that could hold double headers.

Rain races at Darlington? Bristol? Charlotte? That would be a flatout disaster. Martinsville is probably the only oval you could race in the rain, because it's slow and flat.

crl wrote:

Rykia_RKXK wrote:No one locked in. No Champs provisional. Eliminate qualifying. Quickest lap in any given practice of the weekend sets your starting spot. The driver with the quickest practice lap is the pole sitter.

Rain races at any type of track. No crappy delays.

Larger variety of tracks, including smaller tracks that could hold double headers.

Rain races at Darlington? Bristol? Charlotte? That would be a flatout disaster. Martinsville is probably the only oval you could race in the rain, because it's slow and flat.

Maybe Richmond too. And if they feel lucky, New Hampshire.

start all the cars that enter, 1 pit crew for a team, so on

Cut the chase.
Return to old car.

Kthx.

I say we just give every race to Jr, no matter where he finishes, to gain NASCAR fan support.

Rykia_RKXK wrote:

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Except F1 doesn't have timed races...

2 hours is a reasonable time, maybe 2 and a half or 3 depending on what the race is (with some exceptions made for Daytona, the Charlotte 600, the Darlington night race and the Brickyard 400). Champ Car had races that were 1 hour, 45 minutes in 2007 and it worked reasonably well. This can make TV schedules a bit more compromising and easier to work out.

None of the NASCAR drivers can seem to agree what the problem with the Cup cars is. From what I've read, Edwards has said they run too much downforce, Johnson says all the cars are too equal (...kind of rich don't you think?), Dale Jr. blames the tires and lack of grip...

I know there's already a team car limit, but Stewart's bunch is basically another Hendrick team (ditto Baldwin and Phoenix) and Petty is another de facto Roush team.

How I'd fix this may be a bit confusing if you're not much of a math person.

Car count for Cup should be

C = 3((E[1]) + (E[2]) + ... + (E[N-1]) + (E[N]))

Where:
3 = Limit of cars per team, which I set to 3.
C = Cars on the grid
N = Number of manufacturers.
E[X] = Number of engine suppliers for a manufacturer (Ex. Chevy has Hendrick, Childress... probably a more... Ford only has Roush... Dodge would have Penske and Ernie Elliott, Toyota only TRD as far as I know). The value of X differentiates each manufacturer.

Say you have four manufacturers, A, B, C, and D. A has engine suppliers 1 2 and 3. B only has 4, C has 5 and 6, and D has 7, 8, 9, and 10.

You get...

3(3 + 1 + 2 + 4)

Which results in...

9 + 3 + 6 + 12 = 30.

I chose 3 cars per team instead of 4 to sort of get rid of one thing I hate; underachieving at the top level.

Obtain the fattest, drunkest rednecks out of the stands and have them lay in the middle of the race track for the drivers to avoid. Would bring ratings up, that's for sure.

Rykia_RKXK wrote:

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Except F1 doesn't have timed races...

actually they sort of do. Race distances are determined by how many laps they estimate will take the race two hours.

Mother of Invention wrote:

Rykia_RKXK wrote:

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Except F1 doesn't have timed races...

actually they sort of do. Race distances are determined by how many laps they estimate will take the race two hours.

Two hour time limit, and thanks to Canada, a race cannot go more than four hours if it's stopped for some reason (in Canada's case, very heavy rain that flooded the track).

Mother of Invention wrote:

Rykia_RKXK wrote:

flyingturns89 wrote:

Cynon wrote:Timed races instead of laps, with a few exceptions. Each race is 2 hours, and however many laps are completed, that's what the distance is. If the caution comes out and 2 hour time limit hits, then enter Green White Checkered status.

F1's points system.

So, pretty much F1?

Except F1 doesn't have timed races...

actually they sort of do. Race distances are determined by how many laps they estimate will take the race two hours.

Not really. The race distance is determined by the smallest amount of laps needed to race a distance of 305km (260km for Monaco). If a race is really slow, they'll stop it after two hours, but the criteria for the amount of laps is total race distance.

f1fan12 wrote: I say we just give every race to Jr, no matter where he finishes, to gain NASCAR fan support.

I totally agree with that.

I posted this link before but this pretty much sums up what NASCAR needs to do right now. Worth a read.

www.caranddriver.com/columns/john-phillips-twenty-new-rules-to-boost-nascars-ratings