2013 Malaysian GP

Oh man. We'll see how things go in China. Awkward, yet simple podium celebration after all that.

Webber is PISSED. PISSED. He is NOT a shy man, and that's why I love him.

Granted I only started watching F1 in 2011, but I don't recall such an unhappy podium.

BBoy wrote:Granted I only started watching F1 in 2011, but I don't recall such an unhappy podium.

Go on YouTube and find ones from the Prost-Senna days. There were plenty of them.

So what i'm getting from this is.

Vettel ignores team order and passes Vettel. Mercedes didn't let Rosberg by cause of Fuel.

Vettel at least was racing although Webber being pissed was hilarious and in some way he does have a right. Hamilton seemed to be apologetic to Rosberg from what i'm reading.

Team orders are dumb. Let them race please

No sympathy for Webber, he got out-classed by his teammate (like every race), then tried to pin it on Vettel ignoring team orders. Sure Vettel did that, but he's a racer and he should go for it, because that's what makes racing great.

Maybe if Mark spent more time driving than moaning about Vettel maybe he wouldn't be so shit most of the time.

From what I've heard, Vettel decided to say 'f**k you' to team orders that he's rarely given, & Rosberg listened to his team orders. Webber has had to let Vettel go through A LOT in the last 2 years thanks to team orders, so he has every right to be pissed about Vettel's actions (& I'm not being biased towards Webber)

Team orders is part of the reason why I don't like F1 all that much. It's called a damn race, let them race! Don't really see the point of team orders on the second race of the season. I understand using team orders nearing the end of the year when a championship can be won or lost but not right at the beginning...

PKligBKFan wrote:Team orders is part of the reason why I don't like F1 all that much. It's called a damn race, let them race! Don't really see the point of team orders on the second race of the season. I understand using team orders nearing the end of the year when a championship can be won or lost but not right at the beginning...

Well, that opens the door for a re-hash of Turkey 2010. Besides nobody knows how this season is going to pan out, could be that'll be the best race Red Bull have this year, and if that's the case, if Vettel took the pair of them off, that would be very costly in the Constructors' Championship. NASCAR and IndyCar don't really have an equivalent to that, if they did, you'd see similar things there.

Alta wrote:So what i'm getting from this is.

Vettel ignores team order and passes Vettel.

Okay Eric.

So it seems Vettel loves team orders...but only if it affects him positively. And to any one who's saying "oh that's racing", clearly doesn't know how F1 racing works.

Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:

Alta wrote:So what i'm getting from this is.

Vettel ignores team order and passes Vettel.

Okay Eric.

So it seems Vettel loves team orders...but only if it affects him positively. And to any one who's saying "oh that's racing", clearly doesn't know how F1 racing works.

*Webber. It was 3 in the morning and i was prepping for bed. > : |

Anybody who rips on Vettel... lemme remind you, even if team is a big thing in F1... YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!

Vettel did so. Don't like it?!? Go to a league where they give everyone trophies just for participating

Anyone supporting Vettel, you clearly have no concept of Formula One.

Helmut Marko said that both drivers are equal at Red Bull! HAHA! Bullshit. I believe he was the one who wanted Webber out.

Milan655 wrote:Anyone supporting Vettel, you clearly have no concept of Formula One.

Helmut Marko said that both drivers are equal at Red Bull! HAHA! Bullshit. I believe he was the one who wanted Webber out.

He was quite harsh on Webber over the off-season - to be expected from Vettel's number 1 fan, really.

RetrogradeRenegade wrote:

Milan655 wrote:Anyone supporting Vettel, you clearly have no concept of Formula One.

Helmut Marko said that both drivers are equal at Red Bull! HAHA! Bullshit. I believe he was the one who wanted Webber out.

He was quite harsh on Webber over the off-season - to be expected from Vettel's number 1 fan, really.

Honestly, Marko is the man commanding Horner and Newey. Without Marko, I'm sure the team would be much fairer toward Webber...

It seems to be pretty major between Webber and Vettel. Webber knows that at contract end (this year), he's gone from Red Bull. And he really seems pissed with Vettel. Those are two things that can really shape a really horrid relationship. Webber has made it clear that he doesn't like it at the clear-he hasn't stated it in it's entirety but he definitely has implied it.

I don't care about late race retirements or pit stops, but Jules Bianchi finished 13th in a freaking Marussia! (best career finish by Marussia is still 12th, though) Can't wait to see more from this kid.

Fascinating race all around. The drama and awkwardness between teammates was stellar.

Bianchi could have been doing really great things in the Force India - provided they could do pit stops!

I thought "team orders" were made illegal after Ferrari and Schumi made a mockery of them? Then again, nobody really cares anyway.

Vettel showed why he's a champion. He doesn't give two craps about team orders. If he can get it, he goes for it. Weber's biggest accomplishment at the end of his career will be "teammate with Vettel" unless he does something similar.

Mystrsyko wrote:I thought "team orders" were made illegal after Ferrari and Schumi made a mockery of them? Then again, nobody really cares anyway.

Vettel showed why he's a champion. He doesn't give two craps about team orders. If he can get it, he goes for it. Weber's biggest accomplishment at the end of his career will be "teammate with Vettel" unless he does something similar.

After the Alonso-Massa case of 2010, they were deemed legal.

Yeah, he doesn't give two shits about team orders when it goes AGAINST him, but when it helps him he's all for it. He's developing a bigger ego than Alonso and Hamilton put together, and he was once someone I respected..

>letting your teammate by because your team told you to
you call that racing? lolno

Here's my take on this: yes, it's racing, but I do sympathize with Mark. He's been in F1 for over a decade now, and in the early days of his career, he drove for Minardi, and finished 5th in Oz, but only because Ralf decided to put on an airshow going into the first turn, plus other craziness, like Trulli crashing out of 2nd, problems for DC, et al.

He then moved up to Jaguar. Mark was sensational in the old one-lap qualifying format, but the car wasn't as good in race trim, and he would fade during the race because his car didn't have the speed to keep up with Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, hell, even BAR.

Then, he went to Williams, where he finished on the podium in Monaco in 2005, but outside of that, Williams weren't much to shout about post-Montoya/R. Schumacher (they still aren't, TBH).

Then, he returned to Jaguar, which had become Red Bull. He had podiums here and there, but when the car finally got good in 2009, he finally had a car that he could win with. And he has. But along has come this young kid who had a direct line from Toro Rosso to the big team, and, yes, he's been successful, and I think Vettel is a helluva driver, but I understand that Mark feels that Seb is having everything handed to him, with Helmut and Dietrich basically pushing him up to the top of the mountain. If Mark had won the title in 2010 (like he honestly should've), maybe things would've been different, who knows?

Look at Alonso, Schumacher, and Senna. All of them had to work to achieve what they did. Vettel doesn't exactly fit that mold.

Yes, it's racing, and Vettel did what he thought was right. But, I sympathize with Mark.

The fastest driver should always win. Sandbaging because your teammate is slower isn't racing. Team orders should never be a part of racing.

MPatterson1724 wrote:The fastest driver should always win. Sandbaging because your teammate is slower isn't racing. Team orders should never be a part of racing.

Team orders have always been a part of F1 and always will. Nothing, not even rules made specifically to combat them, can stop that.

Vettelwinslol.

I saw something about Lewis Hamilton going into the McLaren pit box when he should've been in the Mercedes pit box. Me thinks somebody's still used to driving for McLaren.

RetrogradeRenegade wrote:

MPatterson1724 wrote:The fastest driver should always win. Sandbaging because your teammate is slower isn't racing. Team orders should never be a part of racing.

Team orders have always been a part of F1 and always will. Nothing, not even rules made specifically to combat them, can stop that.

If only F1 were to BAN anyone for doing team-orders is completely wrong (EX. Like in the NFL, The Saints, paying their players extra for injuring somebody)

RetrogradeRenegade wrote:

MPatterson1724 wrote:The fastest driver should always win. Sandbaging because your teammate is slower isn't racing. Team orders should never be a part of racing.

Team orders have always been a part of F1 and always will. Nothing, not even rules made specifically to combat them, can stop that.

Then I can still form an opinion that drivers who partake in it are an embarrassment to racing

Sums up this race.

It's not that Vettel disobeyed team orders that's pissing me off, it's that Mark has had to do what he was supposed a lot in the last 2 years, & the one time he has to, he ignores it

-Webber joins Red Bull and is there from the start.
-Vettel turns up.
-New upgrades go to Vettel.
-They crash at Turkey.
-It is made quite obvious who the team number 1 is despite Mark being with the team from the start.
-This little incident occurs at Malaysia.
Yes I know there not in chronological order and I may have missed some but this is basically how Webber has been screwed over by Red Bull constantly. I bet he's kicking himself for not taking up that Ferrari drive.

MPatterson1724 wrote:

RetrogradeRenegade wrote:

MPatterson1724 wrote:The fastest driver should always win. Sandbaging because your teammate is slower isn't racing. Team orders should never be a part of racing.

Team orders have always been a part of F1 and always will. Nothing, not even rules made specifically to combat them, can stop that.

Then I can still form an opinion that drivers who partake in it are an embarrassment to racing

I can understand your opinion, but it would make no sense to call them an embarrassment to motorsport. What's your opinion on Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Gilles Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher and Didier Pironi? It's indisputable that these are Formula One's greatest drivers of the past 40 years. Prost cheated to win the 1989 championship, Senna was allowed to choose his team mates so that there would b e no competition, Villeneuve and Pironi had a famous agreement in the 1982 San Marino Grand Prix in which they wouldn't fight on the last laps (much like the Webber-Vettel situation) yet Pironi broke it which was likely to have caused the death of Villeneuve, and Schumacher has and will always be known as a cheater. It's Formula One. Then you have the extreme costs of Formula One, where it would be more logical for a driver to finish ahead of another as they are likely to position higher in the drivers championship. This means more money for the driver and in most cases the driver will have a clause where they will have to pass earnings toward the team. It's not possible for team orders to not exist, it's unfortunate but it's necessary.

Milan655 wrote:

MPatterson1724 wrote:

RetrogradeRenegade wrote:

MPatterson1724 wrote:The fastest driver should always win. Sandbaging because your teammate is slower isn't racing. Team orders should never be a part of racing.

Team orders have always been a part of F1 and always will. Nothing, not even rules made specifically to combat them, can stop that.

Then I can still form an opinion that drivers who partake in it are an embarrassment to racing

I can understand your opinion, but it would make no sense to call them an embarrassment to motorsport. What's your opinion on Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Gilles Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher and Didier Pironi? It's indisputable that these are Formula One's greatest drivers of the past 40 years. Prost cheated to win the 1989 championship, Senna was allowed to choose his team mates so that there would b e no competition, Villeneuve and Pironi had a famous agreement in the 1982 San Marino Grand Prix in which they wouldn't fight on the last laps (much like the Webber-Vettel situation) yet Pironi broke it which was likely to have caused the death of Villeneuve, and Schumacher has and will always be known as a cheater. It's Formula One. Then you have the extreme costs of Formula One, where it would be more logical for a driver to finish ahead of another as they are likely to position higher in the drivers championship. This means more money for the driver and in most cases the driver will have a clause where they will have to pass earnings toward the team. It's not possible for team orders to not exist, it's unfortunate but it's necessary.

Not to mention how it was back in the 50s, when drivers would hand over their car to their team leader if their car broke down.

Milan655 wrote:

MPatterson1724 wrote:

RetrogradeRenegade wrote:

MPatterson1724 wrote:The fastest driver should always win. Sandbaging because your teammate is slower isn't racing. Team orders should never be a part of racing.

Team orders have always been a part of F1 and always will. Nothing, not even rules made specifically to combat them, can stop that.

Then I can still form an opinion that drivers who partake in it are an embarrassment to racing

I can understand your opinion, but it would make no sense to call them an embarrassment to motorsport. What's your opinion on Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Gilles Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher and Didier Pironi? It's indisputable that these are Formula One's greatest drivers of the past 40 years. Prost cheated to win the 1989 championship, Senna was allowed to choose his team mates so that there would b e no competition, Villeneuve and Pironi had a famous agreement in the 1982 San Marino Grand Prix in which they wouldn't fight on the last laps (much like the Webber-Vettel situation) yet Pironi broke it which was likely to have caused the death of Villeneuve, and Schumacher has and will always be known as a cheater. It's Formula One. Then you have the extreme costs of Formula One, where it would be more logical for a driver to finish ahead of another as they are likely to position higher in the drivers championship. This means more money for the driver and in most cases the driver will have a clause where they will have to pass earnings toward the team. It's not possible for team orders to not exist, it's unfortunate but it's necessary.

Not to mention how much Piquet hated Mansell.

Speaking of Piquet, the reason his kid is in NASCAR is because of team orders lol.

China should be interesting.

I love Wattie, but this is quite extreme:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21922429

crl wrote:I love Wattie, but this is quite extreme:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21922429

>Suspend someone for racing
Then what do you call the sport.

Alta wrote:

crl wrote:I love Wattie, but this is quite extreme:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21922429

>Suspend someone for racing
Then what do you call the sport.

Follow-who-we-tell-you-to?

It's still early in the season, and I can understand why Red Bull wanted to give Webber the win, whether it be publicity for Webber, sponsorship money, or whatever. I can guarantee that if this was later in the season that the call would not have been made and Vettel would have simply been allowed to pass his teammate. I understand where Red Bull came from with their call, and to be frank, I agree with Watson to an extent. Something needs to be done to put Vettel in line, but I wouldn't necessarily say suspending him is the right choice.