IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Mystrsyko on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:10 am

the more and more i think about this, the deeper into shock i seem to go. it's just so difficult to wrap my head around. i mean i've seen things like this before. i witnessed earnhardt's crash live, but waking up and seeing this happened to dan wheldon of all people, it's just so out of the blue. it'd be like if you found out jeff burton or jamie mcmurray died in a crash. it actually reminds me of the day kenny irwin died. you just all of a sudden get "oh by the way, kenny irwin died today". i just keep thinking, why dan?

and the more and more i think about it, the more i realize that every driver out there could have been killed. it wasn't contact on track that killed dan, like in earnhardt's case. it wasnt driver error, like gordon smiley, it wasn't mechanical failure like scott brayton. it was total mass chaos and dan was the random guy who got the worst of it. there were at least 5 cars airborne, 3 or 4 of them flipping towards the fence in the same manner, but dan was the one killed. It could have been danica, in her last series start. it could have been franchitti, trying to win a championship. it could have been rookie james hinchcliffe, it have been marco andretti, it nearly was will power...

it's just so hard to fathom that nearly every driver involved in that crash could have died just as suddenly and unexpectedly as wheldon, and with no more reason or explanation. this, of all crashes, is truly a racing incident. like i said, it's not a mechanical fault, or a careless error, or poor safety equipment, or terrible medical response. literally the only thing those drivers could do was hang on and pray they weren't the one...

thats...thats just...tragic
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by f1fan12 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:26 am

A dark side to Auto Racing, as much as I hate to say this, he wasn't the first fatality in auto racing, and probably wont be the last. This death is very strange, because when I think it over, it is almost like a movie script. Winning the Indy 500 in the final turn, him working on the new car next year, he went for the 5 million dollar challenge. He had a very succsessful carrer, and alot of succsessful drivers have died doing what they loved. I forget who said this after Greg Moore' fatal crash, "I would rather die in a racecar than die from any illness." His kids, Sabastein and Oliver, might grow up without a father, but I hope they realize that, there father was a huge talent, and died doing what he loved. Nut one thing I hope doesn't happen. I actually want them to go back to Vegas next year. Alot of people would probably disagree with me, but it wasn't the tracks fault.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by kensethfan on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:59 am

f1fan12 wrote:Alot of people would probably disagree with me, but it wasn't the tracks fault.

It wouldn't have mattered whether it was the track's fault or not. With the high speeds of today's cars, this is one of those tracks you have to be careful. With that said, why you would even think of going three and four wide at a track like this is beyond me. The only tool that would ever do that would be Kyle Busch. I say that because Kyle is probably the only one out there with the guts to try and make a three-wide situation work out of nothing, but that's gotten him into trouble before.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Chives2112 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:04 am

Well, SportsCenter did a pretty good tribute to him.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Mystrsyko on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:11 am

i dont hold the track responsible, or anyone or thing for that matter. the only thing i can try to assign blame to is the 1.5 mile cookie cutter racing it produces. those kinds of tracks have a terrible history of devastating crashes and driver injuries. i think what it boils down to is just too much speed on too small a course.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Nextelracer on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:40 am

I can't believe some of the stuff I've been reading over the past several hours. Crazy stuff...such rhetoric like, "open cockpits should be banned...put bubbles over the cockpits", "remove catch fencing from the race tracks", and "the cars are so unsafe!". Really, guys? Knee-jerk reactions NEVER work and usually prove to be detrimental to everyone involved. The Dallara is a piece of crap car, but it has never proven to be an "unsafe" car. In fact, Indycar has one of the best safety records in racing, which is truly amazing considering how many races have been run before like Las Vegas; 220+ side-by-side racing on large ovals. The catch fencing did what it was SUPPOSED to do, and that was keep cars from cartwheeling outside the track and putting more lives at risk. Lastly, unless you want to lose the whole spirit of open-wheel racing, there's nothing you can do about the open cockpits. The drivers' heads are exposed, and that's THE number one danger of open-wheel racing. It's totally different than NASCAR's situation of years past. Before 2001, the crashes that killed drivers 99.9% of the time were head-on hits driver-side impacts. Both of those have been proven to pose little to no issue in recent years. Does that mean that there is no danger involved? Of course not, it's still motorsport, which will always pose some sort of danger; but there is MUCH less of a chance chance that drivers can be killed in stock cars nowadays. Open-wheel racing is a different beast; Stuff like this can, did, and will continue to happen. Nobody could have predicted that there was going to be a huge wreck in turn 1. Hell, when I saw it, I was like "holy shit!", but I thought that all the drivers would just jump out of their cars and start giving sh*t to Barnhardt, as per the usual. But, it all comes down to luck; What if Dan had hit at .001% less of an extreme angle? What if it had been someone else that went flying into the fence? We'll never know, but we did lose a truly great guy and competitor in Dan Wheldon; and instead of assigning blame to all parties involved and calling for heads and changes to everything, we should be celebrating his life. He died doing what he loved, and I hope when my time comes, I can say I did the same.

RIP Dan Wheldon.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by DAWGFATHER on Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:30 am

Ive been watching racing now for a long time...21 years. I was a lil young to process what happened to Senna. But in the past decade the racing world has lost so many great names. Weithers its Mcrae, Dale Sr, Wheldon, Kalleta (sp?) or whoever it is its always hard to process all the info. And when you actually know the person its magnified. Dan and I talked on twitter from time to time about things especially sim racing. And you could just FEEL the enthuasism that he had for racing no matter what it was. So this death kinda hits home a touch more. I was watching the race and I called my friend up and I told him just before they went green looking over the notes ABC put up and I said to him "This is gonna be like Talladega. There WILL be a big one." There are so many things that really shouldnt have happened yesterday weither it was the 34 car feild or whatever. But its just a part of racing and these guys and NHRA ESPECIALLY know how dangerous it is to strap in and go out there and do what they love to do.

RIP My friend. We will miss you.
Dan Wheldon - 1978 - 2011
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by F1V1 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:49 am

Mystrsyko wrote:the more and more i think about this, the deeper into shock i seem to go. it's just so difficult to wrap my head around. i mean i've seen things like this before. i witnessed earnhardt's crash live, but waking up and seeing this happened to dan wheldon of all people, it's just so out of the blue. it'd be like if you found out jeff burton or jamie mcmurray died in a crash. it actually reminds me of the day kenny irwin died. you just all of a sudden get "oh by the way, kenny irwin died today". i just keep thinking, why dan?

That's how it's hit me today. It's just weird thinking that now when you turn on the TV to watch an IndyCar race Dan Wheldon isn't going to be there. IndyCar was my favorite series for a long time especially when Dan Wheldon was dominating with Andretti and it's just all too surreal thinking you aren't going to see him anymore.

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Mystrsyko on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:11 am

I've been reading a lot of the responses from around the motorsports world, probably because i can't leave it well enough alone, but i found a few interesting reads

Formula 1 World Champion Jody Scheckter wants son Tomas Scheckter to give up IndyCar: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/15335428.stm

Formula 1 & CART driver Mark Blundell calls the race "a recipe for disaster": http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/15333333.stm

Top Gear.com has put together a collection of driver and team responses from Twitter: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/wheldon-twitter-tribute-2011-10-17

Formula 1 drivers Lewis Hamilton & Jenson Button say some kind words about Wheldon: http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/other/2011/1017/1224305951897.html
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Ben Atkins on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:19 am

Dan Wheldon was certainly my favorite driver when I started watching IndyCar around 2005. He shown so much talent every single time he stepped into the car. Even in this race, he managed to gain 10 spots before tragedy struck. I'm going to be honest, I didn't sleep at all last night after what I seen. When Alta told me on AIM, I was in denial that he had died. Then, my worst fears had come when my mother told me he never made it. I have never cried over motorsports, until that very moment. I'm tearing up as I type right now. Dan was such an inspirational guy, and a fantastic race car driver. He was a true friend to most of the drivers on the track. The 5 lap tribute they did for him was amazing. I watched it, speechless. Dan died doing what he loved, and he will be greatly missed.

RIP Dan Wheldon. 1978-2011

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by day500champ1 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:18 pm

Ok, this is only an idea and it will be up to Ceej and Cy if they want to do it, but I think for the next videos for ARLA and TMMCS there should be (if even small) a silent tribute to Dan Wheldon (could be picture or just a mention).

For me thought it's weird (yes, i've post more than one thing here already), but when Dale Sr. died I watch the raced and didn't find out till the next morning what happened and even then I was 11 so I it really didn't hit me.
Yesterday though, although I didn't watch the end of the broadcast (went out to eat), I don't think the drivers and the official and even Marty Reid with his sign off could've given Dan a better salute.

This series will continue on whether Vegas remains on the schedule will yet to be determined, but the series will continue and the drivers will get into their cars next series and begin the chase for the title once again. However there will be things to get adjusted to like the new car, new teammates, but most importantly getting used to not seeing the name WHELDON on the ticker.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by GamerAzuzu on Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:01 pm

When I saw that wreck, I was just shocked...I'm sure a few people know what I mean since I was on the ISRA Teamspeak with a few of you... I kept hanging on to that one string of hope that he would survive..when it was announced that he died...I just broke down in shock..

This is the side of Racing no one want to see...but the fact is, because of the nature of the sport, eventually stuff like this will happen, hell people had been predicting that a bad wreck would happen just a week before this race, and yet no one imagined it would be this bad.


Racing is very dangerous, everyone that has strapped into a race car knows that, regardless they strap in to their car, go out there, and do what they love to do, race.

Dan died doing something he loved, he probably wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by flyingturns89 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:03 pm

Michael Andretti announced today that just hours before the race started, Dan signed a multi-year contract to replace Danica. Very sad times indeed.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Blake Camphausen on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:10 pm

I just still can't believe he is gone. Just like that, gone.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Mystrsyko on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:32 pm

flyingturns89 wrote:Michael Andretti announced today that just hours before the race started, Dan signed a multi-year contract to replace Danica. Very sad times indeed.
the parallels between greg moore's crash and dan wheldon's are eery. both died in the season finale, within a lap of each other (moore on lap 10, wheldon lap 11), just after signing a contract to drive for one of the biggest teams in the sport
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by racingfreak1999 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:15 pm

I think the big is going to be when they go to Indy next year and he's not there. I still can't believe that at the start of the event they were talking about how he could win $2.5 million for himself and a fan and three hours later, he was gone. He will be greatly missed.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Chives2112 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:19 pm

It's just a real tragic to have so many good, young, talented, popular drivers go when they should not have. (Adam Petty, Alan Kulwicki, Greg Moore, the list goes on-and-on) Many of you guys have just hit spot-on with many of your posts. My only question is, is there any way to put a restrictor plate on those engines so slow down the speeds just a little? It's going to be odd not to see Wheldon now, whether racing or in the pits. If I were IndyCar, the first race next year should have the "missing man" formation, just for Dan.

http://www.indycar.com/
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Blake Camphausen on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm

Chives2112 wrote:It's just a real tragic to have so many good, young, talented, popular drivers go when they should not have. (Adam Petty, Alan Kulwicki, Greg Moore, the list goes on-and-on) Many of you guys have just hit spot-on with many of your posts. My only question is, is there any way to put a restrictor plate on those engines so slow down the speeds just a little? It's going to be odd not to see Wheldon now, whether racing or in the pits. If I were IndyCar, the first race next year should have the "missing man" formation, just for Dan.

http://www.indycar.com/
Restrictor plates would work if they used carburetors, but they use fuel injection, so plates aren't possible on indycars.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by navycook75 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:45 pm

It still weighed heavy on my mind today, I couldn't even do my work.

It took me by surprise as well, I just got done watching the Buffalo Bills game when I saw Alta post on my facebook wall that there was a crash. the place I was at was more focused on Football and the TV room had very terrible internet connection, so I went on youtube and looked it up, when I found a video of the crash, I knew right then and there that something wasn't right. for a while I had my facebook, twitter and few news sites open just waiting on official word on his health. The moment I saw that he died, like most of us on here, I cried, and I didn't cry like that in 10 years.

I hardly followed Indycar up until this year (which is beacause of you wonderful people), but I've seen Dan race before in the races I did see, he did great. He will be greatly missed.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by JMac525 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:05 pm

I'm still feeling off today. Remember when Dan threw his hat at the Indy 500 during his celebration? One of my best friends caught it and has it on his dresser today. It must be all the more special now. My buddy is taking the death about as hard as I am.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Chives2112 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:20 pm

I found something on Yahoo! that Dan and his wife were getting His and Hers tattoos the night before the race? Sad

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201110/dan-wheldons-romantic-act-hours-death
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Alta on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:27 pm

I was talking to Gordonfan200 of Youtube and he asked me my thoughts about the crash and the dangers of indycar on ovals. This sums up sort of my rambling thoughts of this tragedy.

It's really hard to say...I honestly don't think they should go back to Vegas on the fact that on a Indycar standard It's pretty much a lethal Bristol-Talladega-esque combination and when disaster strikes there's not a lot of room to get around the incident unfolding in front of the drivers, Tracks like Texas and Kentucky despite the high speeds are much wider tracks and have more room to race around and less chances to have a big crash like that happen unlike Las Vegas where one mistake and it's all over. Also doesn't help the fact they had one of the biggest field in the series since the mid-90s on a track as narrow as Las Vegas and add into the equation the rookie drivers and drivers who are not used to high speed oval racing and it's the perfect recipe for disaster.

I'm amazed that no one else got more seriously hurt in that as that wreck looked like it came out of that Driven movie (Keep in mind that every wreck in that movie was over the top and unrealistic as hell plus terrible CGI effects makes it look even worse on the movie screen), It's absolutely ridiculous how many cars were flying at the same time and it was simply caused by a chain reaction crash, One guy spins out...a car further back spins under braking and it's absolute chaos and anarchy from there on out.

Dan Wheldon losing his life in this horrific crash is Indycar's equivalent to Nascar losing Dale Earnhardt...You just lost one of your star drivers that played a major role in the history of your sport, a driver who was a class act to his fellow competitors and fans of the series (Even if Wheldon was a bit silly at times), At the end of the day at least he went out doing what he loved to do in his life, something he was so passionate about doing his whole career, and something that he left an incredible legacy behind that will be passed on for years to come, and that my friend is what Motorsports is simply all about.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by flyingturns89 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:01 pm

Paul Tracy was on Sirius NASCAR Radio today and said that Dan actually died at the track in the care center. Apparently Paul was been treated for injuries when they brought Dan in, and Paul was in the bed next to Dan, ans was with him when he died.

Also, like I said above, Tracy, as well as Tomas Scheckter and EJ Viso were treated at the track for minor injuries.

Next, an update on Will Power, JR Hildebrand, and Pippa Mann. Power was released from the hospital yesterday, but Mann and Hildebrand were kept under observation. Both have been released. Mann suffered a severe burn to her right hand that immediately needed surgery, while Hildebrand suffered a bruised sternum.

Finally, it was revealed that despite owning the track, Bruton Smith was not involved in this race. He said he leased to Randy Bernard, and Bernard controlled the whole event.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Mystrsyko on Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:52 pm

yeah, when i finally found footage on youtube during the extended red flag period, you could tell right away the drivers knew exactly what had happened. tracy and a few others caught themselves in their interviews and stopped just short of saying "my thoughts and prayers go out to the whole wheldon family", so you could tell they knew he had died. it actually reminded me of Senna, how he died at the track, but they waited until he was at the hospital to declare him dead
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by PYLrulz on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:51 pm

Blake Camphausen wrote:
Chives2112 wrote:It's just a real tragic to have so many good, young, talented, popular drivers go when they should not have. (Adam Petty, Alan Kulwicki, Greg Moore, the list goes on-and-on) Many of you guys have just hit spot-on with many of your posts. My only question is, is there any way to put a restrictor plate on those engines so slow down the speeds just a little? It's going to be odd not to see Wheldon now, whether racing or in the pits. If I were IndyCar, the first race next year should have the "missing man" formation, just for Dan.

http://www.indycar.com/
Restrictor plates would work if they used carburetors, but they use fuel injection, so plates aren't possible on indycars.

Not only that, you restrict speeds, and there will probably be even closer pack racing. NASCAR can get away with it because rarely cars will ramp off eachother (usually after they start spinning anyway)
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Blake Camphausen on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:55 pm

PYLrulz wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:
Chives2112 wrote:It's just a real tragic to have so many good, young, talented, popular drivers go when they should not have. (Adam Petty, Alan Kulwicki, Greg Moore, the list goes on-and-on) Many of you guys have just hit spot-on with many of your posts. My only question is, is there any way to put a restrictor plate on those engines so slow down the speeds just a little? It's going to be odd not to see Wheldon now, whether racing or in the pits. If I were IndyCar, the first race next year should have the "missing man" formation, just for Dan.

http://www.indycar.com/
Restrictor plates would work if they used carburetors, but they use fuel injection, so plates aren't possible on indycars.

Not only that, you restrict speeds, and there will probably be even closer pack racing. NASCAR can get away with it because rarely cars will ramp off eachother (usually after they start spinning anyway)
Yep. The Handford Device may be coming back to Indycar. Thats what I am hearing.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Woody on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:41 am

AntmanB wrote:Marty Reid put it very well at the end of the coverage.

"Many people ask me, why I always sign off 'til we meet again'? Because good-bye, is always so final. Good-bye Dan Wheldon." - Marty Reid

I have to admit that I teared up when I heard this.


@Alta - I think Gordonfan200 is exactly right.

Honestly, I don't think drastic changes should be made. Some of you may disagree, but auto racing is incredibly dangerous, especially in a form like this when you head is totally exposed. The only way I see Wheldon living was if he was in a roofed vehicle with a roll cage that wouldn't collapse. I'm not trying to degrade the safety of Indycar at all because they've made incredible advancements, but that's just the way I see it... there are things that no one can prevent, and I think this is one of those things.

NASCAR started the entire COT project after Dale Earnhardt's death. They also made the HANS device and closed-face helmets mandatory. If I am not mistaken, had Earnhardt been wearing the HANS device and a closed-face helmet, he could have lived. So, personally, I don't think it was necessary to make all of the changes that we have today with the COT. Sure, the COT can probably save anyone from any wreck that NASCAR has today, but in my completely honest opinion, the decline in the racing was not worth it. I personally believe that all NASCAR really needed to do was make the HANS device and closed face helmets mandatory.


With all of that said, I think the best thing to do for Indycar would be not returning to Las Vegas. I think Gordonfan200 put it best.....

(borrowed from Alta's post)

I honestly don't think they should go back to Vegas on the fact that on a Indycar standard It's pretty much a lethal Bristol-Talladega-esque combination and when disaster strikes there's not a lot of room to get around the incident unfolding in front of the drivers, Tracks like Texas and Kentucky despite the high speeds are much wider tracks and have more room to race around and less chances to have a big crash like that happen unlike Las Vegas where one mistake and it's all over. Also doesn't help the fact they had one of the biggest field in the series since the mid-90s on a track as narrow as Las Vegas and add into the equation the rookie drivers and drivers who are not used to high speed oval racing and it's the perfect recipe for disaster.

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Alta on Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:09 am

I posted that on his account. (Sorry if i confused you Woody)
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Woody on Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:15 am

Alta wrote:I posted that on his account. (Sorry if i confused you Woody)

Oh... Razz

Well, then I completely agree with you.

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by DAWGFATHER on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:23 am

Jimmie Johnson yesterday during the EFI testing at Charlotte made mention that he would enver put these cars - referancing IndyCars - at tracks like Las Vegas. Theres 3 tracks - Indy, Texas and Vegas where the cars will hit 220 plus. In a logical sense 5 time has a point. All the otehr tracks are either a mile or less oval or the roadies. And look at the crowd for the season finale...hardly anyone there. Sure its on the schedule...but was it a good idea?
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by day500champ1 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:08 pm

Woody wrote:
AntmanB wrote:Marty Reid put it very well at the end of the coverage.

"Many people ask me, why I always sign off 'til we meet again'? Because good-bye, is always so final. Good-bye Dan Wheldon." - Marty Reid

I have to admit that I teared up when I heard this.


@Alta - I think Gordonfan200 is exactly right.

Honestly, I don't think drastic changes should be made. Some of you may disagree, but auto racing is incredibly dangerous, especially in a form like this when you head is totally exposed. The only way I see Wheldon living was if he was in a roofed vehicle with a roll cage that wouldn't collapse. I'm not trying to degrade the safety of Indycar at all because they've made incredible advancements, but that's just the way I see it... there are things that no one can prevent, and I think this is one of those things.

NASCAR started the entire COT project after Dale Earnhardt's death. They also made the HANS device and closed-face helmets mandatory. If I am not mistaken, had Earnhardt been wearing the HANS device and a closed-face helmet, he could have lived. So, personally, I don't think it was necessary to make all of the changes that we have today with the COT. Sure, the COT can probably save anyone from any wreck that NASCAR has today, but in my completely honest opinion, the decline in the racing was not worth it. I personally believe that all NASCAR really needed to do was make the HANS device and closed face helmets mandatory.


With all of that said, I think the best thing to do for Indycar would be not returning to Las Vegas. I think Gordonfan200 put it best.....

(borrowed from Alta's post)

I honestly don't think they should go back to Vegas on the fact that on a Indycar standard It's pretty much a lethal Bristol-Talladega-esque combination and when disaster strikes there's not a lot of room to get around the incident unfolding in front of the drivers, Tracks like Texas and Kentucky despite the high speeds are much wider tracks and have more room to race around and less chances to have a big crash like that happen unlike Las Vegas where one mistake and it's all over. Also doesn't help the fact they had one of the biggest field in the series since the mid-90s on a track as narrow as Las Vegas and add into the equation the rookie drivers and drivers who are not used to high speed oval racing and it's the perfect recipe for disaster.


I totally agree with this Woody. What killed Sr. was the sudden forward and back motion of the head. The HANS device at the time was not mandatory and I think NASCAR regrets that decision to this day. But, overall, your right. You can have all the safety advancements in the world, but under the right tragic circumstances this can happen. And what I think we tend to forget is it has been 5 years since a death in an indy and only four deaths since 1996. Given the fatality rate especially in early open-wheel racing that's incredible. Death in racing is a rare now, yet it is still a possibility. You are never going to remove the risk of injury or death in racing. You can reduce it, but you can never completely get rid of it.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by PYLrulz on Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:29 pm

I love how all these pundits are saying speed was a factor. While it helped, look at how Wheldon (as well as Power) flipped. They ramped off cars!!! Find a way to keep these cars from ramping off each other, and that will be a huge start.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Racerfan275 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:37 pm

Woody wrote:
AntmanB wrote:Marty Reid put it very well at the end of the coverage.

"Many people ask me, why I always sign off 'til we meet again'? Because good-bye, is always so final. Good-bye Dan Wheldon." - Marty Reid

I have to admit that I teared up when I heard this.


@Alta - I think Gordonfan200 is exactly right.

Honestly, I don't think drastic changes should be made. Some of you may disagree, but auto racing is incredibly dangerous, especially in a form like this when you head is totally exposed. The only way I see Wheldon living was if he was in a roofed vehicle with a roll cage that wouldn't collapse. I'm not trying to degrade the safety of Indycar at all because they've made incredible advancements, but that's just the way I see it... there are things that no one can prevent, and I think this is one of those things.

NASCAR started the entire COT project after Dale Earnhardt's death. They also made the HANS device and closed-face helmets mandatory. If I am not mistaken, had Earnhardt been wearing the HANS device and a closed-face helmet, he could have lived. So, personally, I don't think it was necessary to make all of the changes that we have today with the COT. Sure, the COT can probably save anyone from any wreck that NASCAR has today, but in my completely honest opinion, the decline in the racing was not worth it. I personally believe that all NASCAR really needed to do was make the HANS device and closed face helmets mandatory.


With all of that said, I think the best thing to do for Indycar would be not returning to Las Vegas. I think Gordonfan200 put it best.....

(borrowed from Alta's post)

I honestly don't think they should go back to Vegas on the fact that on a Indycar standard It's pretty much a lethal Bristol-Talladega-esque combination and when disaster strikes there's not a lot of room to get around the incident unfolding in front of the drivers, Tracks like Texas and Kentucky despite the high speeds are much wider tracks and have more room to race around and less chances to have a big crash like that happen unlike Las Vegas where one mistake and it's all over. Also doesn't help the fact they had one of the biggest field in the series since the mid-90s on a track as narrow as Las Vegas and add into the equation the rookie drivers and drivers who are not used to high speed oval racing and it's the perfect recipe for disaster.
I completely agree on this, I know this isn't the best thing to say but these cars are better for road courses or small ovals. Sad thing.

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Racerfan275 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:45 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXDo1jEUo7Y
I almost teared up when I saw this. It shows his final greatest moment. Once again, nadeau does it again. As it said in the video, Godspeed Dan Wheldon

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by crl on Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:57 pm

At least once a decade since the '50s, we've lost a championship-winning (or big-name) driver to a racing accident. Ascari in the '50s, Clark in the '60s, Mark Donohue in the '70s, Gilles Villeneuve in the '80s, Senna in the '90s, Earnhardt in the 2000s, and Wheldon in the 2010s.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Blake Camphausen on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:13 pm

I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by navycook75 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:30 pm

Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Blake Camphausen on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:47 pm

navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
I will. If there is truly a heaven, Dan is up there, smiling at all of us, and probably is pissed for them not restarting the race.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by f1fan12 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:57 pm

Blake Camphausen wrote:
navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
I will. If there is truly a heaven, Dan is up there, smiling at all of us, and probably is pissed for them not restarting the race.

No, if theres a heaven, he won't have time to be angry at restarting the race. He's already racing Ayrton Senna, Greg Moore, Dale Earnhardt Sr. Paul Dana, Kenny Irwin, Adam Petty, and many more, on the yellow brick race tracks in the sky, in IROC Cars.
RIP Once again Dan, and everyone else I have mentioned.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by navycook75 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:13 pm

Blake Camphausen wrote:
navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
I will. If there is truly a heaven, Dan is up there, smiling at all of us, and probably is pissed for them not restarting the race.
he shouldn't be pissed for not restarting the race,if I ran Indy car, I would of done the same thing and end it out of respect.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by day500champ1 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:14 pm

f1fan12 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:
navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
I will. If there is truly a heaven, Dan is up there, smiling at all of us, and probably is pissed for them not restarting the race.

No, if theres a heaven, he won't have time to be angry at restarting the race. He's already racing Ayrton Senna, Greg Moore, Dale Earnhardt Sr. Paul Dana, Kenny Irwin, Adam Petty, and many more, on the yellow brick race tracks in the sky, in IROC Cars.
RIP Once again Dan, and everyone else I have mentioned.

And Bill France Sr. and Carl Fisher are helping to build those yellow brick courses.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by flyingturns89 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:33 pm

day500champ1 wrote:
f1fan12 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:
navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
I will. If there is truly a heaven, Dan is up there, smiling at all of us, and probably is pissed for them not restarting the race.

No, if theres a heaven, he won't have time to be angry at restarting the race. He's already racing Ayrton Senna, Greg Moore, Dale Earnhardt Sr. Paul Dana, Kenny Irwin, Adam Petty, and many more, on the yellow brick race tracks in the sky, in IROC Cars.
RIP Once again Dan, and everyone else I have mentioned.

And Bill France Sr. and Carl Fisher are helping to build those yellow brick courses.

It's not yellow, it's gold.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Cynon on Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:16 pm

navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:
navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
I will. If there is truly a heaven, Dan is up there, smiling at all of us, and probably is pissed for them not restarting the race.
he shouldn't be pissed for not restarting the race,if I ran Indy car, I would of done the same thing and end it out of respect.

The IRL ended a race once in Charlotte because spectators were killed in the middle of the race. The race officially never happened. Precedents exist.

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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by navycook75 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:29 pm

Cynon wrote:
navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:
navycook75 wrote:
Blake Camphausen wrote:I just finished up moving for those who don't know, and I was unpacking a box of my stuff, and as luck would have it, the thing at the top of the first box, an 08 Dan Wheldon Diecast.
keep it in good condition....
I will. If there is truly a heaven, Dan is up there, smiling at all of us, and probably is pissed for them not restarting the race.
he shouldn't be pissed for not restarting the race,if I ran Indy car, I would of done the same thing and end it out of respect.

The IRL ended a race once in Charlotte because spectators were killed in the middle of the race. The race officially never happened. Precedents exist.
I remember that....
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by conrail1990 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:35 pm

Frankly having four cars ramp off, and fly like they did and then have one be a fatality. I really wouldnt want to restart the race either.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by flyingturns89 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:26 pm

conrail1990 wrote:Frankly having four cars ramp off, and fly like they did and then have one be a fatality. I really wouldnt want to restart the race either.

Not to mention six other drivers were injured.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by flyingturns89 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:40 am

Tired of people saying all oval races need to be out of IndyCar, including Indy, so decided to defend oval racing in a way. The easiest way I could think to do that was to come up with an equation that shows how much space each car has. An easy way to do that is calculate exactly, if divided evenly, how much track each car has.

Equation: Track Length in Feet/# of Cars in Race

An example: Indianapolis Motor Speedway: 2.5 Mile Oval=13,200 feet/33 Cars in the race=400 feet per car

Given that, this past week's race at Las Vegas was well off of Indy. A 1.5 mile oval (7920 feet) with 34 cars comes out to just under 233 feet. Based off other calculations I believe the ideal range is 280-300+ feet per car.

Solution: There's a number of ways to solve this. Perhaps staying away from smaller tracks like Las Vegas, or possibly limit the fields to a reasonable number of cars. In Las Vegas's situation, 26-28 cars would have been a reasonable number.

This is just a theory, but I'd like to hear what you guys think about it.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Mystrsyko on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:53 am

i like the fact that you tried to calculate some hard numbers, as opposed to just stating opinions as fact like so many try to do. i think that really does show what at least part of the issue with Vegas was. using that formula, richmond's 2008 race came to 198ft/car (20 cars), but the speeds are a lot lower there, so it's more manageable. i do think that the higher banked tracks need to be cut out though, or at least the packs broken up. 225mph with only 233ft per car as you say, was just asking for trouble.

i also think tracks like Vegas are too narrow for indy. only 4ish lanes available compared to 6-8 at places like michigan or california. they've got a lot more room to avoid trouble and for the cars to settle/slow down before they hit the wall
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by PYLrulz on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:37 am

That, or there needs to be some kind of deal where Indy Cars only go to certain tracks (flat ovals like New Hampshire, Indy, Richmond, Iowa ok, banked ovals like Texas, Las Vegas, and even California and Michigan NOT ok). They do go pretty wide out in Indy, but even then, the packs break up there. The other flat ovals work as well, since cars HAVE TO let up, therefore breaking up any packs. If you lower speeds for the high banked ovals, you are only asking for trouble, as you will end up with even tighter pack racing, the best option is to get away from them.
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Re: IZOD IndyCar World Championships presented by Honda at Las Vegas

Post by Chives2112 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:17 am

Yeah, they used the track-length/number of cars way back in 1911 I think, for the Indianapolis 500. The only thing is that I don't know if IndyCar will go back to Las Vegas because they are so wary of racing there again, and they don't want to risk another life. If they lower the field count, then maybe they'll be back at Las Vegas next year.
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