The Nationwide Series Problem.(Drivers comment)

by Alta Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:41 pm

Interesting exchange on twitter involving Brad Keselowski, Kyle Larson quoted from Jenna Fryer, Tanner Berryhill and Charles Lewandoski. Seemed like the backmarkers are as burnt as we are on the cup drivers.

Berryhill and Kez's exchange:

Brad Keselowski ‏@keselowski 1h

Confused, Why does the only sport with a successful and profitable 2nd tier of competition need to be changed again? @NationwideNNS #nascar

Tanner Berryhill ‏@tannerberryhill 1h

@keselowski Because I want to be a superstar like you & running a family car makes that very hard to do. You know that. @NationwideNNS

Brad Keselowski ‏@keselowski 54m

@tannerberryhill @NationwideNNS yes I do. But cup drivers aren't the reason.

Tanner Berryhill ‏@tannerberryhill 51m

@keselowski @NationwideNNS Still

Lewandoski, Fryer, Berry exchange:

Jenna Fryer ‏@JennaFryer 4h

Larson: "I would be disappointed if they ever did something. I think the Nationwide regulars like Cup guys running with them."

Charles Lewandoski ‏@chalewandoski 1h

Why dont any of you ask drivers who don't run for top 10 teams?"@JennaFryer Larson:I think the Nationwide regulars like Cup guys running."

Tanner Berryhill ‏@tannerberryhill 1h

@chalewandoski @ESPNNASCAR @JennaFryer preach it Charles.

Charles Lewandoski ‏@chalewandoski 1h

@tannerberryhill they need to give fans a view from teams/drivers that dont have matching budgets to the teams that win every wk.

So what are you guys thoughts on this? Are the backmarkers correct? Should they set it on an equal playing field? get rid of cup drivers all together? Something not mentioned? etc.

Also feel free to mention your own problems with the series in this thread.

by Backmarker Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:49 pm

I agree that Cup drivers need to be eliminated completely. Even still, that won't make Berryhill and Lewandowski any better. Razz

by bsoyuz Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:50 pm

I don't know but for me the backmarkers are totally correct. They don't have any opportunity since we always have a KEZWINSLOL or a KYLEBUSCHWINSLOL. Because of that, the "backmarkers" and newbies can't shine on a series that was made for them to shine on.But for me was better just fold the Nationwide and run only the Cup and Trucks as the national series.

by flyingturns89 Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:53 pm

I think that NASCAR should limit the Cuppies appearances in the lower tiers. My idea is to tell all the Cuppies is that they can run as many races as they want in the lower tier, but once they get five wins in a series that they aren't running for points in, they're done for the season in that series.

For example, let's say Kyle Busch wins five races in Nationwide since he's done that almost every season. Once he has gotten his fifth Nationwide Series victory, he can no longer run Nationwide races for the remainder of the season. He can run Truck races until he gets a fifth win in that series, but his Nationwide season is over after the his fifth win in Nationwide.

by Milan655 Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:07 pm

Would it really make a difference to remove cup drivers? Even when you remove cup drivers, you still have teams like RCR and Joe Gibbs who are rich especially in comparison to someone like Vision Racing. The seats currently held by a cup driver can simply be filled by a talented non-cup driver and continue to be significantly faster than any of the father-son teams.

by **Cynon** Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:27 pm

It might actually develop talent if you remove cup drivers entirely. Talent that's actually better than what currently exists in the Cup series.

by bigdc48 Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:17 pm

I agree with Cynon. I think it time for a change and the talent level would be better in the Nationwide Series. Just look at GP3, GP2, Indy Lights, and so on. But IMO, is NASCAR really gonna consider limiting Cup drivers in NNS?

by PackerMan71 Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:23 pm

bigdc48 wrote:I agree with Cynon. I think it time for a change and the talent level would be better in the Nationwide Series. Just look at GP3, GP2, Indy Lights, and so on. But IMO, is NASCAR really gonna consider limiting Cup drivers in NNS?

This is NASCAR we're talking about. They still think having Cup drivers in the lower-tier series is beneficial when it clearly hasn't been for at least the past 5 or 6 years. It used to be beneficial, but now it's at the point where its oversaturation. It's definitely time for a change, because the Nationwide Series is nothing but a grease fire right now.

by PYLrulz Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:42 pm

I've said it before. I am not against Cup teams fielding entries in the Nationwide Series for the purpose of developing drivers. But when Cup guys not only enter by the bunches in those races (though thankfully not as bad as it once was), and are in said top equipment (or are running for "their own teams", which in reality is nothing more than an arm of the Cup team they run for), that is just plain flat out wrong.

by Alta Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:50 pm

PackerMan71 wrote:

This is NASCAR we're talking about. They still think having Cup drivers in the lower-tier series is beneficial when it clearly hasn't been for at least the past 5 or 6 years. It used to be beneficial, but now it's at the point where its oversaturation. It's definitely time for a change, because the Nationwide Series is nothing but a grease fire right now.

I think Nascar is actually going to do something this time ( plz nascar ;_; ) since Nationwide so far is looking like ARCA and as a sport that prides itself on being the closest racing in the world, Having 6 cars on the lead lap in 2 out of 4 races makes the series looks like a joke.

Add on the fact that at least some drivers in the Nationwide field are speaking up and that this year has been hyped as a transitional year of sorts for the new TV deals (and possibly new era) next season may be the benefactor in getting Nascar to shake up their feeder series in one serious way.

Although that's just my outlook on it.

by Electric Wolf Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:55 pm

PackerMan71 wrote:This is NASCAR we're talking about. They still think having Cup drivers in the lower-tier series is beneficial when it clearly hasn't been for at least the past 5 or 6 years. It used to be beneficial, but now it's at the point where its oversaturation. It's definitely time for a change, because the Nationwide Series is nothing but a grease fire right now.

by Mother of Invention Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:27 pm

NASCAR needs to go back to stop scheduling double headers. Stop promoting an environment that promotes double dipping.

by SpeedDemon37 Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:09 pm

Mother of Invention wrote:NASCAR needs to go back to stop scheduling double headers. Stop promoting an environment that promotes double dipping.

Adding on to this, perhaps an actual rule limiting a cup driver's lower tier schedule may not be as necessary if the races weren't at the same tracks that the Cup Series visits every week (like when very few cup drivers show up for Iowa and Rockingham).

And if this were to somehow present an issue in the fact that one race at a track could be considered too few for a single weekend, I'm still convinced that some type of multiple-races-per-weekend format (at least for the Cup Series) would be somewhat successful/popular.

by **crl** Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:47 pm

Milan655 wrote:Would it really make a difference to remove cup drivers? Even when you remove cup drivers, you still have teams like RCR and Joe Gibbs who are rich especially in comparison to someone like Vision Racing. The seats currently held by a cup driver can simply be filled by a talented non-cup driver and continue to be significantly faster than any of the father-son teams.

The solution isn't as simple as this, though.

NASCAR has backed itself into a very tight corner with this. People keep saying the series will fall over dead if Cup drivers are banned or limited. It wasn't that way 20 years ago, when the tracks negotiated with television broadcasters over who would cover their races, instead of NASCAR itself, at least for TV coverage in America.

Whenever the series went and ran standalone races at tracks like Hickory, South Boston, and Orange County (Virginia), there were all sorts of big company sponsors on the cars, like Hardee's, Baby Ruth, Stanley Tools, etc., and TNN (who covered a LOT of standalone Busch Series races when they broadcast NASCAR) never complained about the lack of Cup drivers at those races (they pretty much never went to those), and the racing was always good.

Now, the racing sucks, Cup drivers dominate everything, and ESPN seems to think the series can't live without them. 20 years ago, NASCAR wasn't run by a complete idiot who thinks like an ESPN executive ("Hey, let's schedule Yanks-Sox for ALL our Sunday Night Baseball games this year, since those two teams move the Major League needle!").

If you removed Cup drivers from Nationwide, a lot of those Cup teams might leave, because the attitude towards the series is now so horribly negative. NASCAR's marketing has forgotten what the Nationwide Series is supposed to be about in the first place: developing the Cup stars of tomorrow. It's turned into a playground for the stars of today, and Kez, a man who has reached NASCAR's pinnacle by winning a Cup title, seems to think his legacy builds with each Nationwide race he wins.

NASCAR refuses to acknowledge how majorly they're in trouble if their second-tier series falls over dead because they let the sport's biggest names eat its young from the inside.

Your solution is optimistic, and I'd love for Cup teams to not be so narcissistic these days, but I just don't see it happening with the attitude people at the top have towards the Nationwide Series now.

by Pyrozooka0 Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:18 pm

NeverNeutral wrote:I agree that Cup drivers need to be eliminated completely. Even still, that won't make Berryhill and Lewandowski any better.

you realize how much money NASCAR would lose by doing that, right? Limiting the Cup drivers to part time might be an OK idea though.

by PYLrulz Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:32 pm

Pyrozooka0 wrote:
NeverNeutral wrote:I agree that Cup drivers need to be eliminated completely. Even still, that won't make Berryhill and Lewandowski any better.

you realize how much money NASCAR would lose by doing that, right? Limiting the Cup drivers to part time might be an OK idea though.

I highly doubt the stands would look much different if you eliminated Cup drivers, at least with a shared weekend with Cup

by JMac525 Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:39 pm

While I would personally like to see Cup drivers eliminated completely from the Nationwide Series, I think that giving Cuppies a limited number of Nationwide races a year may be a viable option as well. Either or needs to be done sooner rather than later.

by SpeedDemon37 Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:04 pm

The first Nationwide (Busch) race that I attended was at Michigan in 2004 (we didn't attend the next day's Cup race). While there were many cup drivers in the race, they led a total of 12 laps combined, with Kyle Busch (a series regular) winning (although I certainly wouldn't have minded if runner-up Mark Martin has passed him for the win Smile

).

The only other Nationwide race that I've attended was last June (again, at Michigan), but if we had not already had plans for August of last year, my family would have gone to the race weekend in August with the Truck Series instead of Nationwide. I was afraid that I would witness another Kyle Busch or Joey Logano runaway victory, and it was very pleasantly surprising that the race came down to Regan Smith and Kyle Larson.

by RACECAR Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:49 am

The one thing I wonder though is this: If all the Cup drivers are removed, will the stands still be as they are or will they actually fill up? Can fans outside this forum identify any of the drivers apart from Ty Dillon or Chase Elliot (whom I suspect are only of public awareness because of who they are related to). I'm not saying taking out cup drivers will or won't work, I'm just curious as if it'll make the difference to the people actually attending the race.

Also, why are only the backmarker drivers (who have no chance anyhow) complaining and not the drivers who drive in equipment further up the grid?

by BWard Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:35 am

RACECAR wrote:Also, why are only the backmarker drivers (who have no chance anyhow) complaining and not the drivers who drive in equipment further up the grid?

I think maybe they feel they aren't as higher in the field as they would like to be, maybe because of all the Cuppiers being there. With those Nationwide regulars, they probably aren't complaint because they're actually trying to make and effort in being quicker or just as quick as the Cup drivers every week.

by RACECAR Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:02 pm

BWardboy88 wrote:
RACECAR wrote:Also, why are only the backmarker drivers (who have no chance anyhow) complaining and not the drivers who drive in equipment further up the grid?

I think maybe they feel they aren't as higher in the field as they would like to be, maybe because of all the Cuppiers being there. With those Nationwide regulars, they probably aren't complaint because they're actually trying to make and effort in being quicker or just as quick as the Cup drivers every week.

Thats abit of an illogical thought and here's what makes that odd: Take the stand alone events where Its for instance, Drew Herring in the 54 instead of Kyle Busch, Ryan Blaney in the 22 instead of Brad Keseloski or Joey Logano, Some driver in the 5 instead of Kevin Harvick (lets say Brad Sweet just based on the KKR/Hendrick connection). Based on the few times that happens, those cars still seem to run higher in the race then said drivers in those cars (maybe not as high with Brad, but nowhere near dead last). Its then further exaggerated on the Road courses (Owen Kelly in the 54, AJ Allemendinger in the 22, Ron Fellows in the 5 and so on). Now take out the cup drivers and put said drivers full time in those cars and based on the few races we've seen, I get the feeling the same cars would be at the same place and the backmarkers would not go any higher(maybe its just me, but they rarely ever do). So their argument, while I see what they are trying to say, seems abit flawed.

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