Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

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Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by crl on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:27 am

Too bad for Bruno. I'd love to see him get another shot. He grew on me this year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20524465

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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by f1fan12 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:39 am

I hope Bottas will be Maldanado 2.0!
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by BWard on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:09 pm

I wish Senna to find another ride soon, time is running out for him.
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Milan655 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:37 pm

He said that he had known he would be somewhere else next year, halfway through 2012.
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by PYLrulz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:41 pm

I'm sure Senna would land somewhere with a mid-field to backmarker team
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Cynon on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:28 pm

Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Milan655 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:40 pm

Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by PYLrulz on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:26 pm

Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

I think what Cynon means is that Maldonado, when he wasn't wrecking his car, was showing some real speed on the track. Senna on the other hand was scoring points by just having a decent enough car to keep ahead of the Toro Rossos and there being enough attrition to get in the Top 10.

If Maldonado didn't wreck what seems like every other race, he'd probably be in a decent spot. Not a top driver, but a dependable one.
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by bartman97 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:21 pm

PYLrulz wrote:
Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

I think what Cynon means is that Maldonado, when he wasn't wrecking his car, was showing some real speed on the track. Senna on the other hand was scoring points by just having a decent enough car to keep ahead of the Toro Rossos and there being enough attrition to get in the Top 10.

If Maldonado didn't wreck what seems like every other race, he'd probably be in a decent spot. Not a top driver, but a dependable one.

Senna was about as mediocre as you can get. Maldonado will be good if he learns/or someone teaches him not to crash so much.
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Alta on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:22 pm

Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..
More anonymous if anything...Maldonado got a win....and was quite the wrecking ball at times, while Senna was just...there.

Interested to see what Sir Bottas will do next season
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by RetrogradeRenegade on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:44 am

Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

Just keeping your car on the road is not enough to justify an F1 seat. Maldonado has speed. Senna does not. Yeah, so Maldonado has 8 years more experience, and if Senna had an equivalent amount of experience, he'd probably be as fast too. But guess what? He doesn't. And nothing will ever change that. His reasons for taking those years off are perfectly fine, but the facts are he is not fast enough to justify his place in F1 on that alone. He is also not consistent enough to make up for it - yes, he's scored in 10 races, but there's been plenty of other weekends where he's been so off the boil as to not even have a hope in hell of scoring. I'll be as glad to see the back of him as I am Schumacher.
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Jason Hamilton on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:29 am

Bottas is massively overrated, stupid decision. Unless of course he drives the next Ide in that case it would be hilarious and possible.
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Cynon on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:44 am

Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

Maldonado has a win and would have probably had another podium in Singapore had the car not failed. On top of that, one of Senna's points finishes was because Maldonado wrecked Hamilton.

Of the two, Maldonado is faster, and even if they had the same amount of experience, Maldonado would still be faster. The only thing Senna does better than Maldonado is keeping the car on the road. To be quite honest, I think the only reason Senna is able to do that is because he isn't going fast enough to crash it. In the past, every time he's tried to go fast, he spins it, see his tenure with HRT, where he was getting his ass kicked by Karun Chandhok.

Sakon Yamamoto and Christian Klien are the examples of washed up drivers who were never any good in their prime anyways.

If it wasn't for the amount of Brazilian cash that came with his surname, Senna wouldn't have a spot in F1 on merit.

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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Milan655 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:33 am

Cynon wrote:
Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

Maldonado has a win and would have probably had another podium in Singapore had the car not failed. On top of that, one of Senna's points finishes was because Maldonado wrecked Hamilton.

Of the two, Maldonado is faster, and even if they had the same amount of experience, Maldonado would still be faster. The only thing Senna does better than Maldonado is keeping the car on the road. To be quite honest, I think the only reason Senna is able to do that is because he isn't going fast enough to crash it. In the past, every time he's tried to go fast, he spins it, see his tenure with HRT, where he was getting his ass kicked by Karun Chandhok.

Sakon Yamamoto and Christian Klien are the examples of washed up drivers who were never any good in their prime anyways.

If it wasn't for the amount of Brazilian cash that came with his surname, Senna wouldn't have a spot in F1 on merit.

Wouldn't have a spot on merit? Senna had a 3rd in British Formula 3 and 2nd in GP2..
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by flyingturns89 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:23 pm

My problem with Senna's season was year is just the fact that of his 10 points scoring races, half of them were 10th places, which is only 1 point. You're not gonna get anywhere with 10th or worse finishes 15 out of 20 races. Honestly, he's had a great improvement, but at the end of the day, he just did not improve enough.
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Milan655 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:09 pm

He's a quick driver, and a good driver, although I will not argue with the fact Maldonado is a faster driver than Senna. But how could Senna not be quick if he were to have finished 3rd in British F3 where some of the best have come from, and finishing 2nd in GP2? However, as was seen with Tonio Liuzzi, Pantano and Tomas Enge, Formula One isn't a championship which always brings the best out of a driver..
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by RetrogradeRenegade on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:46 pm

Cynon wrote:
Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

Maldonado has a win and would have probably had another podium in Singapore had the car not failed. On top of that, one of Senna's points finishes was because Maldonado wrecked Hamilton.

Of the two, Maldonado is faster, and even if they had the same amount of experience, Maldonado would still be faster. The only thing Senna does better than Maldonado is keeping the car on the road. To be quite honest, I think the only reason Senna is able to do that is because he isn't going fast enough to crash it. In the past, every time he's tried to go fast, he spins it, see his tenure with HRT, where he was getting his ass kicked by Karun Chandhok.

Sakon Yamamoto and Christian Klien are the examples of washed up drivers who were never any good in their prime anyways.

If it wasn't for the amount of Brazilian cash that came with his surname, Senna wouldn't have a spot in F1 on merit.

Also worth pointing out that the fact Maldonado dumped Hamilton wasn't enough to put Senna in the points - it was only after Maldonado was penalised that Senna was classified 10th.

Even then, Senna isn't that good at keeping the car on the road - remember back to Barcelona, when he went off and out in Q1, when Maldonado would qualify 2nd, and get bumped into pole position, and we all know what happened on race day. Then there was Singapore, where he hit the wall at turn 19 in Q2, having already hit it in practice and Q1. While Maldonado was busy securing another front-row start. The only times Senna out-qualified Maldonado were in Bahrain, when Maldonado had a KERS failure and didn't go out in Q2, and in Canada, when Maldonado crashed at the last corner whilst on a lap that would've put him in Q3 and Senna 17th. This while also generally being over half a second slower than Maldonado anyway. Which was also about the average distance between Alonso and Massa at the beginning of the season, which in turn proved to be the difference between being the runaway leader of the championship and being absolutely nowhere. And although he scored in twice as many races as Maldonado did, even with the masses of points Maldonado threw away, he couldn't beat him.

Senna brings absolutely nothing to the sport, and I will be happy to see the back of him.

Milan655 wrote:He's a quick driver, and a good driver, although I will not argue with the fact Maldonado is a faster driver than Senna. But how could Senna not be quick if he were to have finished 3rd in British F3 where some of the best have come from, and finishing 2nd in GP2? However, as was seen with Tonio Liuzzi, Pantano and Tomas Enge, Formula One isn't a championship which always brings the best out of a driver..

Jan Magnussen was once touted as the next Ayrton Senna - and he scored precisely 1 point in F1. James Hunt was rubbish in F3 and F2, but in F1 he was brilliant. Success in lower formulae does not always translate to success in F1. Not that Senna's record is that impressive - he may have been 3rd in British F3, but he was absolutely demolished by Mike Conway that year. He may also have been 2nd in GP2, but that was despite Pantano leaving the championship wide open for him - I mean come on, they only scored 3 times between them in the last 3 rounds! What the bloody hell were they doing!?
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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by Cynon on Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:03 pm

Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:
Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

Maldonado has a win and would have probably had another podium in Singapore had the car not failed. On top of that, one of Senna's points finishes was because Maldonado wrecked Hamilton.

Of the two, Maldonado is faster, and even if they had the same amount of experience, Maldonado would still be faster. The only thing Senna does better than Maldonado is keeping the car on the road. To be quite honest, I think the only reason Senna is able to do that is because he isn't going fast enough to crash it. In the past, every time he's tried to go fast, he spins it, see his tenure with HRT, where he was getting his ass kicked by Karun Chandhok.

Sakon Yamamoto and Christian Klien are the examples of washed up drivers who were never any good in their prime anyways.

If it wasn't for the amount of Brazilian cash that came with his surname, Senna wouldn't have a spot in F1 on merit.

Wouldn't have a spot on merit? Senna had a 3rd in British Formula 3 and 2nd in GP2..

Clarification: Wouldn't have a spot on merit coming into 2013.

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Re: Williams swaps Bottas for Senna

Post by crl on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:36 am

RetrogradeRenegade wrote:
Cynon wrote:
Milan655 wrote:
Cynon wrote:Senna was kind of crap this year, Maldonado was clearly better than he was... no loss if he doesn't land a ride.

Considering this was only his 9th year in motorsport, and it was Maldonado's 17th season, and that Senna scored in 10 races in comparison to Maldonado's 5, I don't see how you can say this..

Maldonado has a win and would have probably had another podium in Singapore had the car not failed. On top of that, one of Senna's points finishes was because Maldonado wrecked Hamilton.

Of the two, Maldonado is faster, and even if they had the same amount of experience, Maldonado would still be faster. The only thing Senna does better than Maldonado is keeping the car on the road. To be quite honest, I think the only reason Senna is able to do that is because he isn't going fast enough to crash it. In the past, every time he's tried to go fast, he spins it, see his tenure with HRT, where he was getting his ass kicked by Karun Chandhok.

Sakon Yamamoto and Christian Klien are the examples of washed up drivers who were never any good in their prime anyways.

If it wasn't for the amount of Brazilian cash that came with his surname, Senna wouldn't have a spot in F1 on merit.

Also worth pointing out that the fact Maldonado dumped Hamilton wasn't enough to put Senna in the points - it was only after Maldonado was penalised that Senna was classified 10th.

Even then, Senna isn't that good at keeping the car on the road - remember back to Barcelona, when he went off and out in Q1, when Maldonado would qualify 2nd, and get bumped into pole position, and we all know what happened on race day. Then there was Singapore, where he hit the wall at turn 19 in Q2, having already hit it in practice and Q1. While Maldonado was busy securing another front-row start. The only times Senna out-qualified Maldonado were in Bahrain, when Maldonado had a KERS failure and didn't go out in Q2, and in Canada, when Maldonado crashed at the last corner whilst on a lap that would've put him in Q3 and Senna 17th. This while also generally being over half a second slower than Maldonado anyway. Which was also about the average distance between Alonso and Massa at the beginning of the season, which in turn proved to be the difference between being the runaway leader of the championship and being absolutely nowhere. And although he scored in twice as many races as Maldonado did, even with the masses of points Maldonado threw away, he couldn't beat him.

Senna brings absolutely nothing to the sport, and I will be happy to see the back of him.

Milan655 wrote:He's a quick driver, and a good driver, although I will not argue with the fact Maldonado is a faster driver than Senna. But how could Senna not be quick if he were to have finished 3rd in British F3 where some of the best have come from, and finishing 2nd in GP2? However, as was seen with Tonio Liuzzi, Pantano and Tomas Enge, Formula One isn't a championship which always brings the best out of a driver..

Jan Magnussen was once touted as the next Ayrton Senna - and he scored precisely 1 point in F1. James Hunt was rubbish in F3 and F2, but in F1 he was brilliant. Success in lower formulae does not always translate to success in F1. Not that Senna's record is that impressive - he may have been 3rd in British F3, but he was absolutely demolished by Mike Conway that year. He may also have been 2nd in GP2, but that was despite Pantano leaving the championship wide open for him - I mean come on, they only scored 3 times between them in the last 3 rounds! What the bloody hell were they doing!?

That bolded sentence explains how I felt about Liuzzi not being on the grid this year.

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