Sprint Cup Rejects

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Chives2112 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:56 pm

Scott Pruett when he raced for Cal Wells back in 2000?
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:57 pm

BWardboy88 wrote:Is it safe to say that Hermie Sadler should also be added to this Reject list too?

Yes; no Top 10s in 64 starts.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:58 pm

RealRacer4 wrote:I find it funny how these people are misplacing these so-called "reject drivers" that are either rookies or have actually won races and have done decent. Rolling Eyes

That's why F1 Rejects waits until a driver's career is over to give them the Reject label.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Chives2112 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:58 pm

Well, Pruett has had 6 top-10s... So I might take that back.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:59 pm

Chives2112 wrote:Scott Pruett when he raced for Cal Wells back in 2000?

Yep; only three Top 5s and three finishes in positions 6 through 10.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Sparkz47 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:21 pm

Looking at his stats on Racing Reference, Kenny Wallace appears to qualify.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by PYLrulz on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:26 pm

Chives2112 wrote:Scott Pruett when he raced for Cal Wells back in 2000?

I really wouldn't put him in either as a "reject" for the fact he was thrown into a freshly new team.

When I think of a reject, I think of someone who had a good couple of years at least to do something, or was put in a good situation, and stunk it up from the start.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by flyingturns89 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:34 pm

Here's a few from NASCAR's early days.
Bob Apperson 11 Starts from 1949-1952 Best Finish 11th
Louise Smith 11 Starts from 1949-1952 Best Finish 16th
Mike Klapak 12 Starts from 1950-1953 3 6-10s
Bill Widenhouse 31 Starts from 1950-1964 2 2-5s 3 6-10s
Paul Pettit 12 Starts from 1950-1955 1 2-5

Will add more, and believe me, there are a lot.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:51 pm

Sparkz47 wrote:Looking at his stats on Racing Reference, Kenny Wallace appears to qualify.

Yep. Three 2nd place finishes, unfortunately, one of them is at Talladega.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:02 pm

Jimmy Spencer escapes Reject status, because he had 15 finishes in positions 2 through 5 in non-plate races under the proposed criteria.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by navycook75 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:30 pm

nobody has mentioned Delma Cowart? now thats reject status, even after what he did to get kicked out of NASCAR.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:36 am

Christian Fittipaldi: Reject! Only 16 races run, and no Top 10 finishes.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by navycook75 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:59 am

navycook75 wrote:nobody has mentioned Delma Cowart? now thats reject status, even after what he did to get kicked out of NASCAR.
and for those asking "who the hell is Delma Cowart?" he attempted races from 1981-1997, and only making 21 of them, he was booted out of NASCAR after the 1997 Winston Open when he decided to start the race with a car that failed pre race inspection, he was flagged before the start of the race, and he was pretty much never heard from again....
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Chives2112 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:18 am

navycook75 wrote:
navycook75 wrote:nobody has mentioned Delma Cowart? now thats reject status, even after what he did to get kicked out of NASCAR.
and for those asking "who the hell is Delma Cowart?" he attempted races from 1981-1997, and only making 21 of them, he was booted out of NASCAR after the 1997 Winston Open when he decided to start the race with a car that failed pre race inspection, he was flagged before the start of the race, and he was pretty much never heard from again....
I believe he's also an ARCA reject. Razz
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Spen on Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:26 am

Some of the names tossed around here really surprise me. Hershel McGriff??? Anyone who finishes ninth in their first career start (at Darlington to boot) and then finishes 12th at Sears Point *39 years* later cannot be called a reject in any way.

I wouldn't call Jimmy Hensley a reject either. He's the *only* driver who ever managed to have an average finish of better than 20th while driving for Cale's team. Not even Dale Jarrett or Cale himself managed that. Yeah, his tenure at the #55 wasn't impressive, but for a guy who didn't take Cup seriously until he was 46, he did pretty good.

Mike Klapak? 3 top tens in 12 starts is 25%. Brad Keselowski's isn't much higher. And the three Sportsman championships gives him a bit of leeway. Not a terribly impressive Cup career, but it's obvious that he wasn't serious about running Cup full-time.

I tend to be less harsh on independents, so I can forgive Bob Apperson for not getting a top ten. 11 races isn't really very many starts at all.

Louise Smith could possibly be called a reject, though. She certainly failed the hype vs. results scale.

Here's a few additions no one else has mentioned yet:

Loy Allen, Jr. Yes, rushing from ARCA to Cup is rarely going to end well, and Tri-Star was never the best team in the garage, but they should have at least finished ahead of Dave Marcis in points. Plus his appalling results at 'driver's tracks' (he managed to qualify for a grand total of two short track races in his career) indicates to me that he simply didn't have any "it" factor.

Clark Dwyer. The original Casey Atwood. Brought up to Cup at a far too young age, given way too much press, and ended up unemployed at 22. Unlike Atwood, we can give him some excuse (it's not like Elmo Langley's team was doing anything notable at the time), but the hype vs. results scale weighs heavily against him.

Skip Manning. Probably has too many top tens to really qualify, but he was virtually invisible in Billy Hagan's car in the two and a half years he drove for him. Outside of Talladega (a bit of a c***shoot even then), he was never a factor in any way. Going into the Southern 500, he was replaced by some 21-year old kid named Terry, who finished fourth in his first ever race with the team. Skip was holding them back, big time.

Rick Wilson. Also has too many top tens to really count, but considering that he kept Morgan-McClure in midpack mediocrity when they could have contended for top ten points finishes, made RahMoc and the Stavola Brothers look way worse than they really were, and then did even worse than Richard was doing for Petty Enterprises in '93, it's too much underperformance to ignore.

Steve Seligman. Holds the modern-era record for most DNQ's without ever making the field. Then ruined his 'career' when he was found with cocaine.

Eddie Bierschwale. 117 starts, one top ten, and he wasn't even in the car when he got it. Equiptment explains most of it, but poor Eddie just wasn't cut out for Cup.

Tommy Gale. I really feel bad for picking on Tommy, but even with how bad Elmo's team was, four top tens in 245 races is just plain awful.

Paul Dean Holt. I'm normally pretty forgiving of independents, but his career was just laughably bad. 85 starts, 63 DNF's. (Until a few weeks ago, his DNF percentage was worse than Michael McDowell's) One top ten, where he was the last car running, 59 laps down. The closest he ever got to the front of the field was a race at Columbia where he was 'only' 16 laps down at the end. That was one of only two races where he finished within 20 laps of the lead. Even Herman the Turtle finished closer to the front, and he wasn't even trying at all!
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by flyingturns89 on Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:33 am

Spen wrote:Some of the names tossed around here really surprise me. Hershel McGriff??? Anyone who finishes ninth in their first career start (at Darlington to boot) and then finishes 12th at Sears Point *39 years* later cannot be called a reject in any way.

I wouldn't call Jimmy Hensley a reject either. He's the *only* driver who ever managed to have an average finish of better than 20th while driving for Cale's team. Not even Dale Jarrett or Cale himself managed that. Yeah, his tenure at the #55 wasn't impressive, but for a guy who didn't take Cup seriously until he was 46, he did pretty good.

Mike Klapak? 3 top tens in 12 starts is 25%. Brad Keselowski's isn't much higher. And the three Sportsman championships gives him a bit of leeway. Not a terribly impressive Cup career, but it's obvious that he wasn't serious about running Cup full-time.

I tend to be less harsh on independents, so I can forgive Bob Apperson for not getting a top ten. 11 races isn't really very many starts at all.

Louise Smith could possibly be called a reject, though. She certainly failed the hype vs. results scale.

Here's a few additions no one else has mentioned yet:

Loy Allen, Jr. Yes, rushing from ARCA to Cup is rarely going to end well, and Tri-Star was never the best team in the garage, but they should have at least finished ahead of Dave Marcis in points. Plus his appalling results at 'driver's tracks' (he managed to qualify for a grand total of two short track races in his career) indicates to me that he simply didn't have any "it" factor.

Clark Dwyer. The original Casey Atwood. Brought up to Cup at a far too young age, given way too much press, and ended up unemployed at 22. Unlike Atwood, we can give him some excuse (it's not like Elmo Langley's team was doing anything notable at the time), but the hype vs. results scale weighs heavily against him.

Skip Manning. Probably has too many top tens to really qualify, but he was virtually invisible in Billy Hagan's car in the two and a half years he drove for him. Outside of Talladega (a bit of a c***shoot even then), he was never a factor in any way. Going into the Southern 500, he was replaced by some 21-year old kid named Terry, who finished fourth in his first ever race with the team. Skip was holding them back, big time.

Rick Wilson. Also has too many top tens to really count, but considering that he kept Morgan-McClure in midpack mediocrity when they could have contended for top ten points finishes, made RahMoc and the Stavola Brothers look way worse than they really were, and then did even worse than Richard was doing for Petty Enterprises in '93, it's too much underperformance to ignore.

Steve Seligman. Holds the modern-era record for most DNQ's without ever making the field. Then ruined his 'career' when he was found with cocaine.

Eddie Bierschwale. 117 starts, one top ten, and he wasn't even in the car when he got it. Equiptment explains most of it, but poor Eddie just wasn't cut out for Cup.

Tommy Gale. I really feel bad for picking on Tommy, but even with how bad Elmo's team was, four top tens in 245 races is just plain awful.

Paul Dean Holt. I'm normally pretty forgiving of independents, but his career was just laughably bad. 85 starts, 63 DNF's. (Until a few weeks ago, his DNF percentage was worse than Michael McDowell's) One top ten, where he was the last car running, 59 laps down. The closest he ever got to the front of the field was a race at Columbia where he was 'only' 16 laps down at the end. That was one of only two races where he finished within 20 laps of the lead. Even Herman the Turtle finished closer to the front, and he wasn't even trying at all!

Hershel McGriff is safe because of his four wins. Anyone with a win doesn't go in, unless all of their wins were at restrictor plate tracks from 1988 on. Also, you can't really go easy on the independents from the 1950s, they only ran about 15 races a season, so 10-15 starts really without any significant finishes isn't really a good thing.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by tommykl on Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:35 am

I don't know enough about NASCAR to give examples, but as a member of F1 Rejects, I can say that there are usually three types of rejects that get attention:

-Those who are incredibly bad, usually pay drivers.
-Those who could and should have been successful, but got stuck in uncompetitive machinery or just didn't get a break.
-Those that weren't anything special in driving ability, but had a very interesting back-story.

Drivers who lost their lives while racing in F1 are automatically off the site, and no driver gets profiled while he's still driving, to prevent any humble pie from being eaten.

With the sheer amount of races and drivers in NASCAR, setting up a criteria for unrejectification would be very difficult, but if we were to start writing profiles, look for interesting yet unsuccessful drivers before going for simply mediocre and underwhelming drivers.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Mother of Invention on Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:01 am

No Mention of Herman Bean? The Original backmarker!?
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by flyingturns89 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:12 am

Mother of Invention wrote:No Mention of Herman Bean? The Original backmarker!?

He had 57 top tens, so he stays out.

Also, worst case senario, AJ Allmendinger will not be a reject. He's had enough 6th-10th place finishes, so that saves him.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

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