Sprint Cup Rejects

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Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:22 am

I've been thinking of doing this for a while: why not a thread devoted to the drivers who didn't succeed in NASCAR's highest level, right from its very beginning?

However, this is much harder than the format F1 Rejects uses for their site; NASCAR Sprint Cup has run more races, has had more drivers, more race winners, and has 43 cars a week. The criteria for such a thing isn't as simple as it is for F1. Here's F1 Rejects' critiera, straight from their Website:

F1 Rejects wrote:All a former Formula One driver needs to do to escape eligibility for this site is to have been successful in F1. Specifically, they must have scored ...

• a 4th, 3rd, 2nd or 1st place, or
• a 5th place, plus any other top-6 result, or
• three or more 6th places

How hard can that be? Very!

The obvious criteria to escape being a Sprint Cup Reject is to win a race. However, I feel there must be some provisions to this. 99.9% of F1 races go their full distance; they're hardly ever shortened. Nor do they have restrictor plate races.

Here's my criteria regarding wins: If a driver wins a race by completing the full scheduled distance first, whether they had the best car or it was on strategy, they forever escape being a Sprint Cup Reject (in the latter case, they still had to drive the car to the finish). However, if the driver wins a rain-shortened race, or a restrictor plate race from 1988 on, they do not escape being a Reject, unless they had the best car in the rain-shortened race, i.e. Ryan Newman's first win at Loudon, where he led 143 of 207 laps in what was supposed to have been a 300-lap race. In the case of the restrictor plate race, they must win a race at a non-restrictor plate track to escape being a Reject, i.e. Sterling Marlin, whose first two wins were his back-to-back Daytona 500 wins in 1994 and 1995, the second of which was followed up by a win at Darlington a month later.

But as F1 Rejects shows, even drivers who don't win races can still escape being a Reject. One 2nd, one 3rd, one 4th is good enough. A 5th, plus any other Top 6 finish, or three or more Top 6 finishes.

This is also where it gets hard. Since NASCAR runs so many races, one can't escape being a Sprint Cup Reject by finishing 2nd or 3rd or 4th one time.

This is where you all come in. What should the other criteria be to escape being a Sprint Cup Reject? How many 2nd place finishes? 3rds? 4ths? Let me set this: The bar goes no lower than 10th. If we start going below 10th, it'll take up too much time. Also, Rookie of the Year doesn't matter here, so Conway and Lally can already go on the list.

I also forgot to note that in the case of a driver winning a rain-shortened race where they didn't have the best car, they must win a race at a non-restrictor plate tracks, thus Logano and Reutimann cannot be Rejects.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Tanrar on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:44 am

I can name 10 off the top of my head.

David Ragan
Hideo Fukuyama
Dexter Bean
Todd Bodine
Larry Foyt
Michael McDowell
Michael Waltrip (Not sure if any of his criteria can allow him to be considered a non-reject)
Shawna Robinson
Hermie Sadler
and Trevor Boys
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:57 am

Mikey has 39 Top 5s, Ragan 12, Bodine 7. Let's set some more criteria before judging those three. Everyone else is definitely Reject material.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:11 am

Dario Franchitti is also Sprint Cup Reject material; no Top 5s or Top 10s in 10 races.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Sparkz47 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:15 am

Buckshot Jones
John Wes Townley
Maybe we could make an exception for the "winning" rule and include Jeremy Mayfield.
Norm Benning
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:19 am

Townley can't be a Sprint Cup Reject because he's never run a Sprint Cup race; Mayfield's a fool, but he's not Reject material. Buckshot is definitely a Reject.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:21 am

David Stremme is also a Reject; 3 Top 10 finishes. A look at his finishes, though, shows he could've had more.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:22 am

Patrick Carpentier is also a Reject; no Top 10 finishes in his brief time in Sprint Cup.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Alta on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:25 am

Brent Sherman.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:26 am

OK, I have an idea for escaping Reject status criteria for non-winners. How about a driver who finished 2nd at least three times escapes being a Sprint Cup Reject?

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:26 am

Alta wrote:Brent Sherman.

Qualifies.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:28 am

Ron Hornaday, Jr.: Sprint Cup Reject. One Top 10 finish in his career.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:40 am

Jack Sprague: Sprint Cup Reject; no Top 10 finishes.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by BBoy on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:44 am

Jason Leffler
Travis Kvapil
Tony Raines
Jeff Purvis
Andy Houston
Stanton Barrett
Janet Guthrie
Frank Kimmel
Carl Long
Mike Garvey
Mike Bliss
Bobby Hamilton, Jr.
Scott Wimmer
Landon Cassill
Josh Wise
Scott Speed
Sam Hornish, Jr.
Aric Almirola
Loy Allen, Jr.
Christian Fittipaldi
Brendan Gaughan
David Green
Andy Hillenburg
Tommy Kendall
Chad Little
Chad McCumbee
Junior Miller
Jimmy Means
Butch Miller
Ed Negre
Billy Standridge


Last edited by BBoy on Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Toblerone on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:49 am

How about Poles? Can they play into this at all? maybe a certain amount of poles count as a point?
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:50 am

Toblerone wrote:How about Poles? Can they play into this at all? maybe a certain amount of poles count as a point?

Nope. Gotta be about how you finish.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:10 am

OK, here is my proposed criteria for non-winners to escape being a Winston/Nextel/Sprint Cup Reject (from 1988 on, restrictor plate races don't count towards this):

-three 2nd place finishes;
-five 3rd place finishes;
-seven 4th place finishes;
-ten 5th place finishes;
-if not meeting any of the above criteria, 15 finishes in positions 2 through 5;
-20 finishes in positions 6 through 10;
-30 finishes in positions 2 through 10.

What do you all think?

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by flyingturns89 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:39 am

I don't really think it's fair to put someone on the list when they haven't even run a full season, or a full season's worth of races. Neutral
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by RACECAR on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:58 am

BBoy wrote:Jason Leffler
Travis Kvapil
Tony Raines
Jeff Purvis
Andy Houston
Stanton Barrett
Janet Guthrie
Frank Kimmel
Carl Long
Mike Garvey
Mike Bliss
Bobby Hamilton, Jr.
Scott Wimmer
Landon Cassill
Josh Wise
Scott Speed
Sam Hornish, Jr.
Aric Almirola
Loy Allen, Jr.
Christian Fittipaldi
Brendan Gaughan
David Green
Andy Hillenburg
Tommy Kendall
Chad Little
Chad McCumbee
Hershel McGriff
Junior Miller
Jimmy Means
Butch Miller
Ed Negre
Billy Standridge

Wait a minute. Tommy Kendall was in cup? Suspect We're talking about the Trans-Am champion, right?
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by BWard on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:59 am

Max Papis: Sprint Cup Reject - only one Top-10 finish.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Spannerhead29 (Nelson) on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:15 am

Trevor Bayne?
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by flyingturns89 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 am

Surprised no one's said Jeff Green yet.

Also, taking a couple names off BBoy's list, Hershel McGriff has 4 wins, and Ed Negre has 26 top 10s, 22 of which are in positions 6-10.

Anyone else thinking aybe we need to have a certain number of DNQs automatically makes you a reject. Was researching BBoy's list and found that one of those drivers has 75 DNQs.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:35 am

RACECAR wrote:
BBoy wrote:Jason Leffler
Travis Kvapil
Tony Raines
Jeff Purvis
Andy Houston
Stanton Barrett
Janet Guthrie
Frank Kimmel
Carl Long
Mike Garvey
Mike Bliss
Bobby Hamilton, Jr.
Scott Wimmer
Landon Cassill
Josh Wise
Scott Speed
Sam Hornish, Jr.
Aric Almirola
Loy Allen, Jr.
Christian Fittipaldi
Brendan Gaughan
David Green
Andy Hillenburg
Tommy Kendall
Chad Little
Chad McCumbee
Hershel McGriff
Junior Miller
Jimmy Means
Butch Miller
Ed Negre
Billy Standridge

Wait a minute. Tommy Kendall was in cup? Suspect We're talking about the Trans-Am champion, right?

Kendall ran a bunch of road courses in the early 90s, mostly as a sub. Damn near won at Sonoma driving the 42 car in place of Kyle Petty in '91; a late collision with Mark Martin while trying to lap Martin gave TK a flat, and led to the controversial finish between Ricky Rudd and Davey Allison.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:36 am

Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:Trevor Bayne?

Right now, yes, I hate to say. He fits. But that's not his fault, that's Roush's.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:38 am

flyingturns89 wrote:I don't really think it's fair to put someone on the list when they haven't even run a full season, or a full season's worth of races. Neutral

Well, it depends: Did they make a fool out of themselves in a handful of starts, or did they just drive for shitty teams?

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Spannerhead29 (Nelson) on Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:43 am

Danica Patrick
David Gilliand
Travis Kvapil
JJ Yeley
Tony Raines
Scott Speed
Stephen Leicht
Michael McDowell
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by RyanB06 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:47 am

crl wrote:
Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:Trevor Bayne?

Right now, yes, I hate to say. He fits. But that's not his fault, that's Roush's.

He does? Bayne won the 500 two years ago.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by BWard on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:51 am

RyanB06 wrote:
crl wrote:
Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:Trevor Bayne?

Right now, yes, I hate to say. He fits. But that's not his fault, that's Roush's.

He does? Bayne won the 500 two years ago.

Actually it was about nearly 1 1/2 years ago. I wouldn't really say he would be a Sprint Cup reject although I don't know if he has had any another good finishes since then.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Racerfan275 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:40 am

[quote="Spannerhead29 (Nelson)"]Danica Patrick
David Gilliand
JJ Yeley
/quote]
Not sure if Danica is a reject, YET. David has some seconds. Also, nobody has said Stanton Barret

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by oxymoron on Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:48 am

Rich Bickle
Randy Lajoie
Jimmy Hensley (MAYBE)
Kevin Conway
Dennis Setzer
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Spannerhead29 (Nelson) on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:48 am

RyanB06 wrote:
crl wrote:
Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:Trevor Bayne?

Right now, yes, I hate to say. He fits. But that's not his fault, that's Roush's.

He does? Bayne won the 500 two years ago.
According to crl super-speedway wins from 1988 don't count, and I think he's only gotten 1 or 2 top 10's since then.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Spannerhead29 (Nelson) on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:50 am

Racerfan275 wrote:
Spannerhead29 (Nelson) wrote:Danica Patrick
David Gilliand
JJ Yeley
Not sure if Danica is a reject, YET. David has some seconds. Also, nobody has said Stanton Barret
David has finish 2nd at Sonoma. His other two top 5's were at Talladega and Daytona.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by PKligBKFan on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:08 am

Here's my shortlist:

David Gilliland
A.J. Allmendinger (he actually fits the list.)
Jimmy Hensley
Kirk Shelmerdine
Bobby Hamilton, Jr.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Racerfan275 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:29 am

Forgot these guys
Ted Musgrave(Maybe)
Kirk Shelmerdine
Andy Lally
Maybe Casey Atwood?

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by Tanrar on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:47 am

Geoffery Bodine
Stacy Compton
Steve Grissom
Scott Wimmer
David Green
Kerry Earnhardt
Wally Dallenbach
Greg Sacks
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by pennst24 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:51 am

RandomClassic wrote:Geoffery Bodine

He has 18 Cup wins............

A lot of people must not understand what a 'reject' is. Laughing
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by PKligBKFan on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:55 am

Greg Sacks has 20 top 10 finishes in his Cup career. I wouldn't put him on this list.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by flyingturns89 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:06 am

PKligBKFan wrote:Greg Sacks has 20 top 10 finishes in his Cup career. I wouldn't put him on this list.

He also has a pre-1988 plate win, so he's safe.

I want to also bring fuel mileage races into question. If a driver wins a race because of fuel mileage, should that count. Like, if they won or did really good in a race because of fuel mileage, should taht count. Casey Mears and JJ Yeley's 1-2 finish in the '07 Coke 600 comes to mind.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by BWard on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:16 am

Scott Riggs
Andy Houston
Johnny Sauter
Andy Lally
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by PKligBKFan on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:21 am

flyingturns89 wrote:
PKligBKFan wrote:Greg Sacks has 20 top 10 finishes in his Cup career. I wouldn't put him on this list.

He also has a pre-1988 plate win, so he's safe.

I want to also bring fuel mileage races into question. If a driver wins a race because of fuel mileage, should that count. Like, if they won or did really good in a race because of fuel mileage, should taht count. Casey Mears and JJ Yeley's 1-2 finish in the '07 Coke 600 comes to mind.

In my opinion, it can take great talent to win a race on fuel mileage. Saving fuel is not that easy.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by AntmanB on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:35 am

uh bayne won a race. how ios he a reject?
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by PKligBKFan on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:49 am

AntmanB wrote:uh bayne won a race. how ios he a reject?

Because restrictor plate races don't count. I wouldn't count him as a reject. I don't think he's run in enough races to be considered reject material...
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by day500champ1 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:20 pm

flyingturns89 wrote:
PKligBKFan wrote:Greg Sacks has 20 top 10 finishes in his Cup career. I wouldn't put him on this list.

He also has a pre-1988 plate win, so he's safe.

I want to also bring fuel mileage races into question. If a driver wins a race because of fuel mileage, should that count. Like, if they won or did really good in a race because of fuel mileage, should taht count. Casey Mears and JJ Yeley's 1-2 finish in the '07 Coke 600 comes to mind.

I wouldn't consider Mears a reject. I think he's just had rotten luck. But, Yeley I would.
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by PYLrulz on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:51 pm

crl wrote:Dario Franchitti is also Sprint Cup Reject material; no Top 5s or Top 10s in 10 races.

I'd give him a pass, just because he jumped straight to Cup, then got hurt soon after, and lost sponsorship.

I will go along with Jason Leffler being a reject though. His first ride (the 01 car in 2001), I can give him a pass, since that was Ganassi's first year (despite Sterling Marlin doing very well in the 40), in a new car make, in his rookie year. The 11 though, there was no excuse. Especially once Denny Hamlin hopped in that car, and was getting good runs out of it.

PKligBKFan wrote:
flyingturns89 wrote:
PKligBKFan wrote:Greg Sacks has 20 top 10 finishes in his Cup career. I wouldn't put him on this list.

He also has a pre-1988 plate win, so he's safe.

I want to also bring fuel mileage races into question. If a driver wins a race because of fuel mileage, should that count. Like, if they won or did really good in a race because of fuel mileage, should taht count. Casey Mears and JJ Yeley's 1-2 finish in the '07 Coke 600 comes to mind.

In my opinion, it can take great talent to win a race on fuel mileage. Saving fuel is not that easy.

Seconded. Especially when you have a racer's instinct to haul ass and get across the finish line, doing something like that, that can be difficult to do, and especially so if you know 2nd place (or some other car near the front) HAS enough fuel
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:39 pm

Racerfan275 wrote:Forgot these guys
Ted Musgrave(Maybe)
Kirk Shelmerdine
Andy Lally
Maybe Casey Atwood?

According to the remainder of the criteria I proposed near the bottom of the first page that no one has objected to or made suggestions to modify, Musgrave escapes being a Reject because he had four 2nd place finishes in his career, all at non-plate tracks.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:40 pm

PYLrulz wrote:
crl wrote:Dario Franchitti is also Sprint Cup Reject material; no Top 5s or Top 10s in 10 races.

I'd give him a pass, just because he jumped straight to Cup, then got hurt soon after, and lost sponsorship.

Sorry, Dario wanted to move up, and he did so. He must be looked at in the same vein as everyone else who could be a Reject.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:41 pm

I'm surprised Cynon hasn't had anything to say yet, considering he is a member of the F1 Rejects forum.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by crl on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:43 pm

flyingturns89 wrote:
PKligBKFan wrote:Greg Sacks has 20 top 10 finishes in his Cup career. I wouldn't put him on this list.

He also has a pre-1988 plate win, so he's safe.

I want to also bring fuel mileage races into question. If a driver wins a race because of fuel mileage, should that count. Like, if they won or did really good in a race because of fuel mileage, should taht count. Casey Mears and JJ Yeley's 1-2 finish in the '07 Coke 600 comes to mind.

As it says in the first post, a driver who is first to finish the full distance of a non-plate race, whether they had the best car or won it on strategy, escapes being labeled a Reject because they still had to drive the car to the finish.

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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by BWard on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:45 pm

Is it safe to say that Hermie Sadler should also be added to this Reject list too?
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Re: Sprint Cup Rejects

Post by RealRacer4 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:50 pm

I find it funny how some people are misplacing these so-called "reject drivers" that are either rookies or have actually won races and have done decent. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by RealRacer4 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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