IndyCar's new entry rules.

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IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by flyingturns89 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:13 pm

IndyCar has announced that in 2012 certain fields will be capped at 26 cars. Currently, the only two races with this cap are San Paulo, Brazil and Qingdao, China. The rules to get on the entry list:

Cars 1-24: The Top 24 cars in 2012 owner's points.
Car 25: The highest finishing car in 2011 owner's points not already in the field.
Car 26 (And possibly the dumbest racing rule I've ever heard in my entire life): A driver selected by the track promoter.

All other cars will rejected from even being allowed to enter.

Thoughts?
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by BWard on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:16 pm

This is just a piece of crap, as it turns out things are being taken even more seriously in IndyCar.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by RealRacer4 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:22 pm

No. Just, no.

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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by flyingturns89 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:25 pm

I just think it's pretty BS that the people that run the track can say who races or not. I mean Brazil's the fourth event of the year. Big names can be way down in points after three races. Both Ryan Hunter-Reay and Graham Rahal were sitting outside the Top 20 in points after race three last year. They both finished in the Top 10. The reality of it is that a top driver could miss the field.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Alta on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:29 pm

OH NOES THEY'RE CAPPING THE FIELD CAUSE A DRIVER DIED WITH A HIGH FIELD COUNT....SCREW INDYCAR!!!1111

I can understand the field cap, top 24 and the extra car from 2011 in on points since that's about as many cars they get on an average. Promoter's option will be interesting, It will most likely add a hometown driver into the field....but we'll see how it plays out.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Sparkz47 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:09 pm

flyingturns89 wrote:Car 26 (And possibly the dumbest racing rule I've ever heard in my entire life): A driver selected by the track promoter.

All other cars will rejected from even being allowed to enter.

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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by flyingturns89 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:14 pm

Alta wrote:OH NOES THEY'RE CAPPING THE FIELD CAUSE A DRIVER DIED WITH A HIGH FIELD COUNT....SCREW INDYCAR!!!1111

I knew they were gonna cap the field after that. But to let someone in the race just as a promotion? Stupid.

Anyways, was thinking that they might not even do this. Remember they said they'd cap the field at 26 for all races but Indy, which would have 33, and Vegas, which would have 25, plus up to five more competing for the five million. What did we get? Thirty car fields at a couple races, and at Vegas instead of 25+5, 33+1.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Alta on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:32 pm

flyingturns89 wrote:
Alta wrote:OH NOES THEY'RE CAPPING THE FIELD CAUSE A DRIVER DIED WITH A HIGH FIELD COUNT....SCREW INDYCAR!!!1111

I knew they were gonna cap the field after that. But to let someone in the race just as a promotion? Stupid.

Brings up attendance for fans wanting to see the local boy.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Sparkz47 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:37 pm

Alta wrote:
flyingturns89 wrote:
Alta wrote:OH NOES THEY'RE CAPPING THE FIELD CAUSE A DRIVER DIED WITH A HIGH FIELD COUNT....SCREW INDYCAR!!!1111

I knew they were gonna cap the field after that. But to let someone in the race just as a promotion? Stupid.

Brings up attendance for fans wanting to see the local boy.

It's a gimmick. A stupid one at that. Your just going to put some guy out there with the big boys just because one of the suites upstairs likes the cut of his jib?[/endseventieslingo] That's not how racing is supposed to work. I don't think it's fair that most drivers have to actually put effort into it and then some whippersnapper gets to come in because the track promoter says so. Stupid.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Alta on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:47 pm

Sparkz47 wrote:
Alta wrote:
flyingturns89 wrote:
Alta wrote:OH NOES THEY'RE CAPPING THE FIELD CAUSE A DRIVER DIED WITH A HIGH FIELD COUNT....SCREW INDYCAR!!!1111

I knew they were gonna cap the field after that. But to let someone in the race just as a promotion? Stupid.

Brings up attendance for fans wanting to see the local boy.

It's a gimmick. A stupid one at that. Your just going to put some guy out there with the big boys just because one of the suites upstairs likes the cut of his jib?[/endseventieslingo] That's not how racing is supposed to work. I don't think it's fair that most drivers have to actually put effort into it and then some whippersnapper gets to come in because the track promoter says so. Stupid.
Champ Car had the same deal back in the CART days and Indycar needs to drive up the attendance some way.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by AntmanB on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:51 pm

i agree with alta. Lets us see another Fail driver, and we all know how much we love/hate Fail Drivers.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Cynon on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:52 pm

Weren't IndyCar supposed to have an entry cap at 26 for last season? scratch How did that one turn ou- wait, it wasn't ever used? Hmm... I'll wait until each of those races happen, to be honest.

Anyone who complains about the Promoter's Option CLEARLY has no sense of the history of American open wheel racing, because the Promoter's Option was used quite frequently to add a local boy (eg Ross Bentley for Vancouver or Toronto) to the field, or a car carrying a local sponsor. Do you think attendance will be as good if a popular entry isn't allowed to start? Like if, say, Dale Junior did not qualify/was not allowed to enter a NASCAR race?

If you think that answer is yes, you're crazy. Especially when you're going to a place that doesn't know much about IndyCar racing. Randy Bernard is not stupid. He knows he needs to get the Chinese interested because it's a country unfamiliar with IndyCar racing.

Keep in mind, Chinese newspapers were ecstatic when Ho-Pin Tung was only rumored to drive one of the Renault F1 cars (instead of Vitaly Petrov), and Tung was given a Super License (when he did not meet all the criteria) for just such an eventuality. Maybe if Tung got the drive then the Chinese would have come out in force to support him...

...just in case you had any questions who this rule was made for.

I think the Promoter's Option was given to A.J. Foyt at the Michigan 500 in 1984 after his qualifying time was disallowed... and if you think the fact that one of the fastest cars in the field would be starting last wouldn't create drama you're insane. They had a camera specifically trained on Foyt as he came flying through the field, and it was pretty cool to watch.

The promoter's option was given to Lyn St. James a few times (when she was an 11th hour entry or didn't set a qualifying time), but in each of her appearances she was competent so it wasn't really an issue.

I can't remember the Promoter's Option being handed to any one-off who was completely out of their depth. You can argue that Ross Bentley was out of his depth, and I will agree with you on that, but Bentley had experience in junior formulae.

Dennis Vitolo doesn't count either, for the same reason. Even though Vitolo was worse than Bentley... ... muuuch worse...

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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Sparkz47 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:01 pm

In my view it's not what racing is supposed to be. You qualify, your in. I don't like the idea of a driver being in a race via a "Because I said so" rule.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Cynon on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:12 pm

Sparkz47 wrote:In my view it's not what racing is supposed to be. You qualify, your in. I don't like the idea of a driver being in a race via a "Because I said so" rule.

You're not going to draw in Chinese fans, which will make the Chinese race unprofitable. Which is what the sponsors don't want. IndyCar can't afford to go against the wishes of a good deal of their sponsors.

Not only that, but the series needs to expand into new markets. You need to find a way to interest those new markets, especially when they don't have much motorsport heritage. If this rule didn't exist then I don't think the Vancouver race would have lasted very long.

If there was a Turkish driver in Formula 1, there would still be a Turkish Grand Prix. Likewise, a Korean driver would save the Korean Grand Prix.

Racing is a business until the green flag drops. Then it's a sport.

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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Sparkz47 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Cynon wrote:
Sparkz47 wrote:In my view it's not what racing is supposed to be. You qualify, your in. I don't like the idea of a driver being in a race via a "Because I said so" rule.

You're not going to draw in Chinese fans, which will make the Chinese race unprofitable. Which is what the sponsors don't want. IndyCar can't afford to go against the wishes of a good deal of their sponsors.

Not only that, but the series needs to expand into new markets. You need to find a way to interest those new markets, especially when they don't have much motorsport heritage. If this rule didn't exist then I don't think the Vancouver race would have lasted very long.

If there was a Turkish driver in Formula 1, there would still be a Turkish Grand Prix. Likewise, a Korean driver would save the Korean Grand Prix.

Racing is a business until the green flag drops. Then it's a sport.

I realize you need marketing to breach new markets, but surely there has to be away to allow foreign one-offs without demeaning the entire qualifying process. The whole top 24 in owner's points in a bit too inclusive, maybe you could trim that down to 20 and allow the rest of the spots for one-offs. That way, drivers would still have to qualify, and the fans would have local favorites to cheer for.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Mother of Invention on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:30 pm

I can't remember the Promoter's Option being handed to any one-off who was completely out of their depth. You can argue that Ross Bentley was out of his depth, and I will agree with you on that, but Bentley had experience in junior formula.


I remember an ARCA race at Pocono that used the promoters option 3 6 laps into the race.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Tanrar on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:59 pm

If the promoter's option is used this year:

Ho-Pin Tung confirmed for China race.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Alta on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:03 pm

RandomClassic wrote:If the promoter's option is used this year:

Ho-Pin Tung confirmed for China race.
I think he went back to GP2. Not positive on that though.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Mystrsyko on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:28 pm

except for the part where they exclude all other drivers, it sounds pretty good to me. i would be pretty pissed if I qualified fast enough to race and was told to go home so a slower hometown boy could race instead
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by RACECAR on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:13 pm

My biggest gripe with this is once again, points play a roll (a problem I already have with NASCAR Qualifying). Why can't they just simply have elimination qualifying? Fastest 25 get in and then, the Track promoter selects a driver. No points BS, only raw speed and a choice of the promoter, simple as that.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by f1fan12 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:55 pm

This will turn out like this, Teams that have money and are outside of the top 25, will buy their way in.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Ceej on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:21 pm

The difference between this and NASCAR is that teams outside the top 24 won't be allowed to enter at all.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by BWard on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:26 pm

Ceej wrote:The difference between this and NASCAR is that teams outside the top 24 won't be allowed to enter at all.

I've started to think that IndyCar will treat some drivers like criminals this season, cos' this is as strict as the rules could possibly get in this sport.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by PYLrulz on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:13 pm

Well, considering how open wheel racing used to have 1 entry as a promoters option in the past, like someone stated, I'm not totally against it, but if I am reading things correctly, we are talking about a "Top 24" rule?!? THAT'S beyond bull. Makes NASCAR's Top 35 rule look VERY exclusive
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Cynon on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:16 pm

PYLrulz wrote:Well, considering how open wheel racing used to have 1 entry as a promoters option in the past, like someone stated, I'm not totally against it, but if I am reading things correctly, we are talking about a "Top 24" rule?!? THAT'S beyond bull. Makes NASCAR's Top 35 rule look VERY exclusive

Remember how last year was though? 26 cars were supposed to start every race but Indy and Las Vegas.

27 cars started Long Beach.

...

Yeah, that rule was clearly enforced...

I think IndyCar is worried about having teams make the trek all the way to Brazil or China only to find out there's no room for them, forcing them to go all the way back just because there isn't enough space for them to fit in the paddock! Talk about a loss for the teams!

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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by flyingturns89 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:32 pm

Cynon wrote:
PYLrulz wrote:Well, considering how open wheel racing used to have 1 entry as a promoters option in the past, like someone stated, I'm not totally against it, but if I am reading things correctly, we are talking about a "Top 24" rule?!? THAT'S beyond bull. Makes NASCAR's Top 35 rule look VERY exclusive

Remember how last year was though? 26 cars were supposed to start every race but Indy and Las Vegas.

27 cars started Long Beach.

...

Yeah, that rule was clearly enforced...

I think IndyCar is worried about having teams make the trek all the way to Brazil or China only to find out there's no room for them, forcing them to go all the way back just because there isn't enough space for them to fit in the paddock! Talk about a loss for the teams!

First off, 30 cars started Texas. So, even less of a backbone for IndyCar. second, I almost thought about the fact that it was the two races not in North America, but it somehow slipped by me. Third, what really annoys me is we're probably gonna a couple trash drivers running. Ho-Pin Tung for the China race, and probably a local trash driver for the Brazil race. Got it narrowed down to a few, like Ana Beatriz, Vitor Meira, Bruno Junqueira, Raphael Matos, Joao Paulo de Oliveira, Mario Romancini, Mario Moraes, or heck, even Rubens Barrichello. None of them have a confirmed ride right now. Barrichello might drive the #5, but I doubt he'll be very good. All the others with the exception of Meira are just IndyCar trash.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by PYLrulz on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:39 pm

Cynon wrote:
PYLrulz wrote:Well, considering how open wheel racing used to have 1 entry as a promoters option in the past, like someone stated, I'm not totally against it, but if I am reading things correctly, we are talking about a "Top 24" rule?!? THAT'S beyond bull. Makes NASCAR's Top 35 rule look VERY exclusive

Remember how last year was though? 26 cars were supposed to start every race but Indy and Las Vegas.

27 cars started Long Beach.

...

Yeah, that rule was clearly enforced...

I think IndyCar is worried about having teams make the trek all the way to Brazil or China only to find out there's no room for them, forcing them to go all the way back just because there isn't enough space for them to fit in the paddock! Talk about a loss for the teams!

Well if they want to make that rule for Brazil and China, just so a team isn't blowing a wad of money to DNQ, that I can understand, I get the logic behind that, but to apply it to the States, or Canada?!? No. Just. No.

As for 27 cars starting at Long Beach when 26 was stated to be the number that fields were going to be maxed at, they did it at Long Beach, which is a prestigious race. It's not like they did it at Iowa, or Edmonton, or some race that has no history. That didn't bother me too much.
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Re: IndyCar's new entry rules.

Post by Cynon on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:11 am

flyingturns89 wrote:
Cynon wrote:
PYLrulz wrote:Well, considering how open wheel racing used to have 1 entry as a promoters option in the past, like someone stated, I'm not totally against it, but if I am reading things correctly, we are talking about a "Top 24" rule?!? THAT'S beyond bull. Makes NASCAR's Top 35 rule look VERY exclusive

Remember how last year was though? 26 cars were supposed to start every race but Indy and Las Vegas.

27 cars started Long Beach.

...

Yeah, that rule was clearly enforced...

I think IndyCar is worried about having teams make the trek all the way to Brazil or China only to find out there's no room for them, forcing them to go all the way back just because there isn't enough space for them to fit in the paddock! Talk about a loss for the teams!

First off, 30 cars started Texas. So, even less of a backbone for IndyCar. second, I almost thought about the fact that it was the two races not in North America, but it somehow slipped by me. Third, what really annoys me is we're probably gonna a couple trash drivers running. Ho-Pin Tung for the China race, and probably a local trash driver for the Brazil race. Got it narrowed down to a few, like Ana Beatriz, Vitor Meira, Bruno Junqueira, Raphael Matos, Joao Paulo de Oliveira, Mario Romancini, Mario Moraes, or heck, even Rubens Barrichello. None of them have a confirmed ride right now. Barrichello might drive the #5, but I doubt he'll be very good. All the others with the exception of Meira are just IndyCar trash.

de Oliviera ran Japan because he's been running on that track in Formula Nippon, and I'd say he was far from trash. Mario Moraes and Mario Romancini were both trash. Meira retired from IndyCar, Matos is awful, Beatriz not much better...

...but Rubens Barrichello on the other hand could very well be competitive right off the bat. Kanaan barely was last season, and from what I've heard in testing, the Chevy is the best engine, and TK and Ruby would have that at their disposal.

Granted, if Vasser signs Barrichello alongside Kanaan then maybe KV Racing can do something other than fix cars every week. Like be fast over a race distance.

Personally, I'd LOVE to see Bruno Junqueira get the promoter's option for Brazil because there's a lot to like about him. Being a title threat until he got injured in the Indy 500 in Champ Car doesn't hurt either.

The 26 car limit didn't last long, and my guess is that either the teams overthrew it or the series realized they couldn't afford to turn anyone away for those races. Brazil last year actually did run 26 cars exactly, so I can understand the 26 car limit if they were real hard-pressed for paddock space.

China is a big unknown though, and since both are temporary circuits you're not guaranteed as much paddock space. I think it would be noticeably different, if, say, IndyCar ran a race at Zhuhai.

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